Sensitivities to the WB Community - Ripsnort and others

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by hitech:
Ok gent's im totaly confused.

Ive seen 2 references to my first post in this fourm assuming that I was taking some kind of offenses to badgers writup.

Hey HT, just go over to AGW BB,post something,.. anything.. they'll turn your words around, put them through a meat grinder, and have you convinced that you're a worthless piece of crap! (Oh, I forgot, I AM a worthless piece of crap! DOH!)
(For added bonus, just mention the two letters A.H.)
 


[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 05-03-2000).]

[funked]

Hitech you just made my day with your signature!

LMAO!

[Dinger]

Well HT, I wasn't taking offense, but your post "it's always interesting", suggested (and without doubt correctly) that there's more to it than what badger stated.  I simply  tried to state that that notwithstanding it was a fine post.
Of course, if the second "anti-HT" posting wasn't mine, I apologize for the pedantic and vain gloss  

[HARD SCOUT]

Hey you can post in the FAII NG all ya want about AH. No one will yell at ya about it as long as you don't tell them padlock is evil and FA is a kiddie sim. Stay off those and people will listen and try out AH like me.

FAII NG:

microsoft.public.games.zone.f ighterace


I talk about AH and what it does well and needs added to FAII. At same time FAII does things I wish AH would do. Competition is good and it's nice to see what others are doing.

Trust me when I say there are plenty of mature WWII flight enthusiast at FAII that would love to give it a go. Already have hyped it to some ADVANCED flyers who never knew it existed and were interested.

Only one problem, price. Yes, I know the steeper price keeps the kiddies out but to be quite honest I have found the kiddies aren't the problem. It's the adults who get too caught up in the game and start attitudes. So I am not sure if that argument holds water. If you're a WB player $30 a month sounds like a bargain based on hourly rates. If you come from AWIII and FAII, I think the price seems steep  cause we don't think in hourly rates. My thinking is this...would I purchase a new game a month? Yes and no. I don't buy that many games cause I fly online and still play my other offline games. But if the game offers everything I am looking for in a WWII sim then YES I would not mind.

HARD SCOUT



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" Its' a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear " ( Normism )

[funked]

Badger, I agree with you about the development of WB and the changes in the market.

However I <S> the AGW people who are hanging in there with WB.  If they are still having fun with the sim, and the price is not a problem, why not stay?  I think it's perfectly reasonable.

All the talk means nothing ultimately.  It's the product that counts.  The merits of the products will determine the results of the competition, not messages on a BBS.

And I think we will have to wait a while to see what's really going on financially with these companies.

Until then enjoy the competition and the progress it brings.  Sure beats the crap out of a monopoly, don't it?

[Ghosth]

Badger great post!

I do disagree on one point. Hotseat did more to drive me away from WB than all other factors combined. I have zero respect for him at this point. I understand that he's trying to do a lot with very limited resources. However, his attitude sucks no matter how you cut it.

As to his BBS, well considering he ran it like Hitler ran Germany, no great loss IMHO!

Rest of the post rocked, keep up the good work!

[NUTTZ]

Not from me Westy, and you know i am a contributor on the boards.
NUTTZ
 

Originally posted by Westy:
Very, very nice read at lunch today Badger. Really sound point of view and gave me a better insight when thinking abotu what you were saying.
 I'd been lambasted as a disprupter in AW about five months ago. I was the guy there who tried to keep the news fesh on other online sime - in particular AH.  I ended up  more or less having to stop talking about it in these private newsgroups less I be tarred and feathered
 I think it would be safe to say you could replace "WB" in your above letter with "AW" but magnify  the emotions and insecurities even more - they have NO AW:4 on the horizon unlike WB's who at least has a few screen shots and a company saying they are developing a sim for thier subscriber base.
 
 -Westy

[hitech]

Would this have been a better reply (The intent is the same for me)

I realy enjoy and apreciate people from outside the industry putting there minds to work about it's dynamics in such a rational fasion.

HiTech

[Ozark]

HT....That's it!!!!!!

 

[By-Tor]

 Very well said Badger.And good to 'see' you again!I remember you with high regard from WB and as far back as F-OPS I believe.
 Hope to see you on the AH dueling ladder that is soon to be implemented.


  By-Tor   'SCREAM'IN PTERODACTYLS'

[Badger]

Hi HT...  

 

Originally posted by hitech:
Badger I belive you might have set a record for the longest post.

It's always interesting seeing people outside the industry putting there minds to work about it's dynamics.

 

Originally posted by hitech:
Ok gent's im totaly confused.

Ive seen 2 references to my first post in this fourm assuming that I was taking some kind of offenses to badgers writup.

I think it's a great writeup and just wish I could put my thoughts on paper in such a eloquent fashon as badger does.

Please fill me in how my first post was taken.

I understood the complimentary context of your first post.  My apology and proffering the option for you to remove it, was solely based upon its overwhelming length and not any reference you made, or some feeling of a negative reaction to my message.  I do appreciate your concern and subsequent posts to clarify any misconceptions.  I also thank you for you the second compliment.    Although I'm licensed, since I couldn't make a living as a real life pilot, I had to learn to write and do something else to make a living.  

HiTech, the following commentary is not something I expect you to respond to.  In fact, given the continuing hole that Hotseat digs himself into at iEN by too much written communication, I would encourage you not to say much else in these threads as it could just end up "spun" the wrong way.  However, while I was typing this to you, I did want to add some generalization for everyone else about our miscommunication.  This is a demonstrable example of what's happening with the entire WB/AH BBS issue.  It's interesting to note how easy it is to read and interpret the written word so many different ways.  It can take on various "spins",  depending upon one's own current state of mind, as well as a natural human propensity towards a pre-conceived bias, to read into the words whatever viewpoint they wish to believe.  I think HEDU made an astute observation over on AGW, which I believe was lost on most.  To paraphrase, he tried to say that he felt most everyone was misunderstanding what ripsnort was saying in his posts there.  After he (HEDU) really read them, it became clearer to him that ripsnort was not showing disrespect towards the WB community, but rather was wanting to enthusiastically share with his many old comrades what he had discovered by looking outside the current known world.  In other words, to him the world was round, not flat, which was a new and exciting revelation.  He ended up being branded as a heretic and he's obviously angry and hurt about it.

Anyway, enough said.  To me WB and AH are NOT mutually exclusive, but rather complimentary to my needs as a consumer of online flight sim entertainment.  If either one went away, it would be unhealthy for the future if the genre.  Quite frankly, AH is the best thing that ever happened to WB and reciprocally, WWII On-line is the best thing to happen for the health of AH.  

I love funked's comment "Sure beats the crap out of a monopoly, don't it?"

Regards,
Badger

[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-03-2000).]

[Badger]

 

Originally posted by By-Tor:
Hope to see you on the AH dueling ladder that is soon to be implemented.

I was hoping it was you.    It's great to see you again my friend.  The old FO and WB days were tremendous.

You really think I'm going to sign up to the ladder so you can punch my lights out some more like you used to do consistently?  

I fly a P51 now, just so I can run around the arena and stay ahead of some of the great pilots on here until they get tired.  At that point, I follow them home and hope they crash on landing so I get the kill by being the closest to them.  

Best Regards,
Badger


[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-03-2000).]

[Badger]

 

Originally posted by funked:
....However I <S> the AGW people who are hanging in there with WB.  If they are still having fun with the sim, and the price is not a problem, why not stay?  I think it's perfectly reasonable.

Hi funked...

You make some excellent points and I hope you didn't think for a minute that my first message was a recruiting drive for AH.

That was not my intent and I agree with you about the many WB'ers who continue to play and wish to pay by the hour.  They indeed should be saluted for their voluntary commitment, but your message jogged my memory about a specific group of WB's players that have no other option, except to stay.  Of course, I'm speaking of the MAC crowd.  I stand to be corrected, but I believe there are currently no other multiplayer on-line flight sims available for Apple users, other than WB's.

I raise the point, only because I read a narrative by MG tonight on AGW explaining his Macboy activity, by basically outlining the frustrations of being a MAC user.  I sympathize with his position and respect his desire to want to continue using a technology of his own choice for all aspects of his computing needs, not just gaming.  Perhaps some of that frustration did lead to excess zeal in some of his posts.  I'm not trying portray his activities as being justifiable under the classic Harvey Milk "twinkies" defense, but there is some merit to using that analogy.  

I didn't think it was that a big of a deal anyway and perhaps the community reaction here was blown a little out of proportion.  You have to admit, it was kind of funny to read some of his supporters attempts to mitigate and minimize his messages.  Have you ever heard the old expression, "we were sent to defend an indefensible position"?  That just about sums up much of what I read.  Some great attempts combined with some real "foot in mouth" explanations that bordered on the hilarious.  All in all, a great topic and a fun read, instead of the classic "my cannon is supposed to be bigger than your cannon according to the 1944 sub paragraph D specifications" messages we normally wade through.

As Pyro said well about the Macboy (MG) issue, "Who cares? It's something to laugh about, not get upset about."

Regards,
Badger

[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-03-2000).]

[funked]

Yeah I agree with Pyro 100% on that one.  I let MG get under my skin once and then I realized he is usually having a bit of fun with us.  

[pzvg]

Excellent post Badger, had to read it twice so my ex-grunt brain could dissect it properly
The attitudes being thrown off by a few on both sides are often a gut reaction defense, less common in European society but a practical social standard in America. The 2 main points vis-a-vis WB/AH price and Mac capability, the FM argument,(please don't start) is a nonstarter, because it's almost a conceptual theory discussion with a tad too much heat, Ditto artwork,bug stomping,and new versions. I do not think the Flightsim community on the whole is very
appreciative of the attitudes found on these
boards,which adds to negative impact on recruitment. I have heard us referred to as "elitist","snobs","F@#$ing know-it-alls"
And it's not coming from someone's kids,it's coming from people I do respect, and in some cases admire, who have listened to the rants on these boards and reached the conclusion that we as a whole are not working within the bounds of sanity, I cannot make a post on AGW, I'm no longer welcome there(private matter) but I will try to extend to this community some kind of moderate behavior,
yes, I know I wasn't very moderate in the FW190 thread, that was rude, and I'm sorry.
But we should not be having this constant go round of flame and contrition, We supposedly, are old enough to accept responsibility for our actions, no I do not say let's all get along, I'm a realist, I do say, even in the throes of vendetta against an assured foe, one must bear in mind that one's conduct, and the memory of it, will surely outlast both the words, and the cause of them.
       To any and all, I am proud to fly with people of such talent,but I ask,
 can WE live up to the caliber we display?
Wilton Stewman

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"