Gaytv

[Seeker]

"Seeker why is it that Gays and Gay supporters always say that straight people are "afraid" of them? "

They are.

Is this familiar?

"of course, I've nothing against gays myself, just so long as they leave me alone. I always feel uncomfortable when they pester me".

This sounds fair enough. Then again, we've all heard this one too from our wives and girlfriends

"I wish there were more girl only places. Somewhere where I could dress up how I like and have a drink in peace with out being bothered".

Sound familiar?

Of course, we men know they're lieing sluts; because let's face it; if they didn't want to be bothered, why would they walk around with bare navels, tit's half hanging out and painted faces, right?

The truth is the first time most average, straight, normal men are faced with the appalling, in your face, won't take no for an answer, are you sure you don't want a drink cutie pie, I can get you off baby! nature of male sexuality they're bloody terrified!

I mean, woudn't you be terrified if some giant coal miner type grabed your bellybutton instead of your girlfriends? What about when all his mates nudge each other and jeeringly wolf whistle at you? Or stand in the way so you *have* to rub past them to get to the bar. Go on out in the town tonight, you'll see ordinary, respectable men doing the above in every bar. Not one of then ever considers what it would be like to be on the receiving end; after all, can't the objects of all this attention just take it as a compliment?

Well, would you? Could you? How many ways can you think of of saying "no thank you, I don't want to dance"? How many times would you be prepared to say it without kneeing him in the nuts? Ask your girlfriend to read this; then ask her what she thinks.

Pretty soon you'd be saying things like "I wish there was a place where we boys could go and just drink without being hit on all they time"; no?

Either that or flying 109's, anyway..........

[Kieran]

Whoa, Seeker, that was just a little out there. But, FWIW, if that is what I have to look forward to if we mainstream homosexuality as the new "Sport of Kings", then Hell YEAH! I'm against it!

I think Mighty has been clear; he doesn't like gays, but he doesn't have to like them- they exist anyway. What he doesn't have to condone is pressure to expose his children, in school or on TV, to a lifestyle he totally disagrees with. Or are you suggesting he doesn't have this right?

[Eagler]

after readin this thread, sumpin tells me there are a few of you just waiting to subscribe .. u go girl!

[Kratzer]

Excellent points, seeker.

I think the line that needs to be drawn, and one that Raub touched on, is that between not liking something and being afraid of and hating something.

I agree that our schools should not be responsible for the moral education of our children - parents should.  I think it is also very important for parents to teach acceptance and respect for people who are different rather than fear and hatred.

As long as people set out to vocally condemn gay people as being 'bad', or 'sick', gay people will feel the need to identify themselves as a community (strength in numbers)...  In my opinion, lack of acceptance leads to the very thing Raub mentioned - 'the surest way to avoid acceptance is to make continual efforts to distinguish yourself from the rest of the population'.  If everyone didn't give a toejam who was sticking what and in whom they were sticking it, then it would immediately cease to be an issue.  As it stands now, it is used as the basis for the worth of the person - both by (some, not all) gays, who can be guilty of identifying themselves solely by their orientation, and by (some, not all) straights, who continue to condemn people, and judge them on the whole based solely on orientation.

[Am0n]

Originally posted by Mighty1
Amon I know your joking but I always love the comment  "If you don't like gays it's because you are to afraid to admit your gay".

No. I am not saying "if you dont like them you are gay". Im saying if you are scared of gay people, or lash out at the thoughts of them.

they shouldnt bother you at all. You dont have to only dislike or like, you CAN be neutral if you wish.

Its there choice, not yours.

[Kieran]

So much comedic potential, so little time...

"Hey, I can't help it I'm straight, ok? You think I'd choose to be straight? You think I'd choose to be afraid of the big, bad homosexuals running around? I wish I weren't different..."

The thought occurs to me that, if homosexuality is not a choice and is inborn, why do we have to teach about it? I mean, if you're gay, you're gay. If you're not, you're not. Seems to me teaching about it means trying to reach someone, for or against, that cannot be reached.

Then again, are we suggesting kids can't be influenced? If so, there are many people on Madison Avenue laughing their arses off at us right now, because advertising does work. That means there is the possiblity we might influence people who otherwise would not "experiment" to delve into homosexual activities. Yes, that does bother me, because I don't want either of my daughters bringing home their girlfriends for our approval.

[-tronski-]

1.  I actually watched an episode of "Queer as Folk" when it played here a while ago, and I thought it was just bad TV, just a crap show. I guess I should've taken the high moral stand, just ignored it and hoped it went away leaving my tunnel vision barely intact, but then I always to prefer to judge on merit.
2. The funny thing about TV is the remote. You can actually TURN channels when required. I'm not making it up look into it you'll find it totally true. I use that function everytime Benny Hinn magically apears.
3. Mighty1, being homosexual is not a mental deficiency. I prefer to think that your attitude does lend it self to a IQ deficient mind however.
4. I can't believe I read the whole thing.

 Tronsky

[AKSWulfe]

You can tell the difference between a straight person and a gay person. Male or female by appearance or the way they talk.

However, you also can't tell a gay person from a straight person by the way they talk, walk or appear. Female or male.

I don't like, actually pretty much am disgusted, by the former. However, the latter, I don't care... I can't tell, and so long as they keep it inside their home.. why should I care?

What do I see if I see 2 men kissing in the street? I cringe, it absolutely disgusts me. Same with some guy walking down the street dressed up in drag, or with make up on, or wearing some other clothing which a person right in the head would not wear. Or two guys holding hands. Or two guys playing grab ass.

Is it really too much to ask to keep that crap inside?

It's certainly not a normal thing, but people are trying to make it that way.

And why? There is nothing to be gained by letting the world know you like in da butt!

So I guess you could say, I don't care as long as I don't know. but I still don't find it acceptable.
-SW

[Seeker]

Kieren,

I'm honestly surprised at you in this, you're not normaly so up tight. However.....

"Now it is suggested we integrate a lifestyle into our curriculum that is no more valid than religion."

That's a beautifull sentance, and I cannot fault it in any way; so far as it goes.

"If I cannot teach religion for fear of ostracizing many who don't share my views, how could teaching homosexuality in public schools do any less so?"

A extremly valid point; but I think we may be talking somewhat at crosspurposes here: I took your prior post to suggest that sex education as a whole was taboo; which I find shockingly irresponsible. And, if it's not, then homosexuality is but a small part of that greater subject, no? After all, using your perfectly valid white power example; I'd imagine that actualy you're forbidden to promote white power, but encouraged to develop debate on race relations. Should not sexuality recieve the same sensitivty? I do believe stats show that over 17% of your pupils do indeed need education in this area.


"I am not afraid of being homosexually raped"

Then you're bloody wierd. It terrifies any one else I've ever discussed it with; and I don't believe anything I said led you to:

"- thanks for the stereotypical response."

Is that where this came from?

"Again, if you practice this in your own home, fine with me"


As for this:
"tomorrow we are teaching homosexual safe sex."

I should hope so to! You teach road safety, don't you? You can't believe that if safe sex isn't taught, they'll all catch aids and die and the problem will go away?

(I could be way out of line here; I know how much cultural norms differ on both sides of the pond. For the record; "full" sex education, covering safe sex etc is mandatory for "both ways" in most, if not all of Europe)

"Oh, FWIW, for all the sex ed we do teach in school, those statistics you refer to just keep a climbin'. Teaching safe sex at school hasn't done a thing to reduce teen pregnancy nor the transmission of vd. If anything it has only made teen sex more socially acceptable. Please, quote me some statistics that prove otherwise. "

I don't "do" stats, if I did, I'd have some on the Spit. But they're out there. However, more relevantly, while I can't argue with your conclusion above in your demographic area, what's your alternative? Do you actualy believe that sex education has lead to a rise in extra marital promiscuity?


"I firmly believe these topics are the parents' responsibility, just as is religion."

I can come very close to agreeing with you here; but not quite. In America you've seperated Church from state, and thereby banished it from the school place altogether, which I think is sad.

Over here; we've done the opposite. Children are not only taught "thier" religion, but to avoid the traps of a monolithic "state socio-religious dynamic" (sounds cool, huh? ) they're given a working knowledge of *all* religion. They can take their own, well informed pick then.

We do the same with sexual education too, for the same reason.


different strokes, if you can say it with a straight face!

[Daff]

"I agree that our schools should not be responsible for the moral education of our children "

No, but they certainly should teach them that homosexuality exists and that it's nothing to be afraid of!

In any case, I'm not at all surprised by the responses. The fightsim (BBS) community seems to be largely compromised by white, christian, rightwing  people, so the homophobic outcry was to be expected.

[Kratzer]

What would that really matter?  Don't you want your children to be happy?

Or is it the thought of what everyone else would think?

I was never taught to fear homosexuals, or that it was 'evil', and I never had any desire to screw another man.  If you like girls, you like girls, if you like boys, you like boys.  Why does it matter? Because it makes you uncomfortable?  So does watching the bed scene in a movie with your mother in the room...  hell, most of us have been raised to think that straight sex is dirty, it is understandable that deviant sex is thought to be even more dirty.

A wise friend once said 'Never picture your friends having sex'.  We can all take a lesson from that:

Some things are better left private, and what anyone does in their spare time, where we can't see them, and when it doesn't affect us, is their own business.  It isn't as if they are drinkin' and drivin'...

[Udie at Work]

Originally posted by Seeker
"Seeker why is it that Gays and Gay supporters always say that straight people are "afraid" of them? "

They are.

Is this familiar?

"of course, I've nothing against gays myself, just so long as they leave me alone. I always feel uncomfortable when they pester me".

This sounds fair enough. Then again, we've all heard this one too from our wives and girlfriends

"I wish there were more girl only places. Somewhere where I could dress up how I like and have a drink in peace with out being bothered".

Sound familiar?

Of course, we men know they're lieing sluts; because let's face it; if they didn't want to be bothered, why would they walk around with bare navels, tit's half hanging out and painted faces, right?

The truth is the first time most average, straight, normal men are faced with the appalling, in your face, won't take no for an answer, are you sure you don't want a drink cutie pie, I can get you off baby! nature of male sexuality they're bloody terrified!

I mean, woudn't you be terrified if some giant coal miner type grabed your bellybutton instead of your girlfriends? What about when all his mates nudge each other and jeeringly wolf whistle at you? Or stand in the way so you *have* to rub past them to get to the bar. Go on out in the town tonight, you'll see ordinary, respectable men doing the above in every bar. Not one of then ever considers what it would be like to be on the receiving end; after all, can't the objects of all this attention just take it as a compliment?

Well, would you? Could you? How many ways can you think of of saying "no thank you, I don't want to dance"? How many times would you be prepared to say it without kneeing him in the nuts? Ask your girlfriend to read this; then ask her what she thinks.

Pretty soon you'd be saying things like "I wish there was a place where we boys could go and just drink without being hit on all they time"; no?

Either that or flying 109's, anyway..........

 Fear isn't part of the equation for most ( i love it when people assume ) Repultion, anger  or disgust, if not all 3, would be more like it.   You know, women slap you if you're out of line.  Well I slap too, only with a closed fist.  Don't ask don't tell thing ya know.  Get in my personal space with some gay crap and you're most likely going to get "slapped" a couple of times.  The only thing I "fear" from gays is that wonderful discease they helped spread in the 80's.  The freakin bi's gave it to the chicks so now everybody has to worry about it.

 That being said, I've only "slapped" a gay guy once. When I was 19 this dude in my mom's singing group slapped my arse when I was going up the stairs to my room.  I turned around called him a few choice words and clocked him on the chin.  First time I ever heard a grown man cry like a 5 year old.  Yeah I felt bad that he cried like that, didn't get to talk to my mom for 6 months either hehe.  He crossed the line though.  BTW he was the last human being I ever hit and he died 4 years later of AIDS.

 Let em have their silly tv station.  I know showtime got turned off at my house because of queer bellybutton folks.   One thing I've always wondered/worried about is that society this week says it's ok to be gay. So their all coming out and what not.  They better hope society keeps tolerating/liking them.  If/when it swings back the other way people will know who they are.  That will not be good.

 Am I a homophobe? probobly, but I don't really care.  It's my right  Keep ur hands off and you won't get hurt.  That's a real simple deal, I can live with it.  If he's a big thstrong brute, well I guess I'll have to slap him while holding a chair or beer bottle.  In the big picture they really don't bother me or take up any brain power, this is the most I've thought about gays in years.  Pretty sad day at the O'club actually.  We had some good debates going this week too.


 And yes I've got a couple of gay friends. They know my feelings and have NEVER made any sort of a pass at me or my friends.  Hell one of em hid it for 10 years.  My dad's best friend died from AIDS as did on of my mom's cousins.  So don't try and preach about my diversity.  I've seen what it does first hand.  Someday maybe I'll talk about what I saw when I was 17 working in an Adult bookstore in Houston.   I saw them in their natural environment, which lead to my general feeling of disgust at what they do.  

 go ahead flame away now.

[midnight Target]

Note that according to their lesson plan, if you "accept" someone's homosexuality, you are HOMOPHOBIC!

Direct quote: Acceptance - Still implies that there is something to accept. Characterized by such statements as, "You're not a lesbian to me, you're a person!" or "What you do in your own bed is your business." or "That's fine with me as long as you don't flaunt it."

Makes perfect sense to me.

"I accept black people...as long as they don't move into my neighborhood"

"I accept Jews, they are OK as long as they are dealing with money"

"Your not just another idiot to me, your a person"

"You can be a muslim as long as you don't flaunt it.

Try to see the connection there without me having to draw a freakin picture!

NOBODY WANTS TO TEACH KIDS HOW TO BE A HOMOSEXUAL!

The classes suggested are to teach tolerance.........sheeeesh! Why is that bad?

I do have one thing to add though......"weiner dog in the chili bowl"  now that was funny!

[lemur]

No comment.

Well, ALMOST no comment.



~Lemur

[Kieran]

I have never walked up to anyone that I was certain was gay and said, "I don't like your kind and you are not allowed around me." I have worked alongside gays in the past, and as long as they didn't bother me, everything was cool.

It is another thing altogether to talk "tolerance" when what we really mean is "acceptance as a social norm". It isn't, and should never be held as so. Forget comparing it to being black, muslim, or any other silly comparisons you've made. Phyisioligically there is no justification for homosexuality. It is a psychological orientation at best, environmental at worst. If on the one hand it is psychological then that would suggest a "cure" is possible, assuming a person wanted to be cured. If it is environmental, then it seems the worst thing we can do is provide an environment where it is considered "normal".

You know, we could just as easily be discussing pedophiles here. What makes them the way they are? Shouldn't we be teaching them to practice their lifestyles safely? Shouldn't we accept they are as they are, and of course, "why would they choose to be that way, for all the grief they receive?" Perhaps I am wrong, and we should include pedophilia in our sex education programs?

I have no serious problems teaching about the human reproductive system, or about aids, or any other STD. I have a serious problem teaching about a sexual lifestyle of any kind. I guess I am just repressed.