Author Topic: LA7 vs. F4U1-C (Read 788 times)

Tjay · « **Reply #45 on:** January 19, 2002, 01:34:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager

Fortunately the LA-5(7) cockpit layouts are a horrible place to look out from and offer at least a partial handicap to the VVS dweeb.

Yeager

...and it has a very short clip. And burns fuel like crazy. And the ballistics of those funny Russian cannon just don't seem as good as Hispanos.

J_A_B · « **Reply #46 on:** January 19, 2002, 01:38:34 PM »

Tac has an interesting Idea that mimics an RPS--and it might work well in an alternate arena to the MA. Howwever, for the free-for-all that the MA is that idea is less than desirable. The MA is about choices, not restrictions.

The perk system was added so planes like the Tempest and Me-262 could be added in the MA without completely destroying the game; in previous flightsims such superior aircraft were either left out of the planeset, not modeled at all, or simply neutered for gameplay. The perk system was NOT added to remove over half the planes in AH from normal use (and judging by statistics, perking a plane IS remiving it from normal use). It was NOT designed to give older players with hordes of time and accumulated points an even greater advantage. It was meant to add choices, not restrict the game further.

I still don't see the need to perk ANYTHING that is currently unperked. Nothing is that good. Nothing dominates the arena. Indeed, AH today probably has the most balanced plane usage of ANY flightsim, EVER.

J_A_B

Pongo · « **Reply #47 on:** January 19, 2002, 01:48:42 PM »

I guess I had embellished TACs idea a little but still...
But we dont have a spit ixhf..
nor a p51h
nor a 4 hispano spit vc
nor a 109g6ascm.
cheap perks for little bit better AC would real well I think.
If these kind of "little bit better" planes where in the game and were worth more points to kill perk points might accumulate more quickly.
I think its a great idea.

Doberman · « **Reply #48 on:** January 19, 2002, 01:52:27 PM »

I think the topic has strayed a bit, or people are seeing a bit more than was originally posted.

The orginal point is that the 7 is more competent in basically every flight regime than the F4U, and particularly all the ones which matter in the MA.

The cannon armed Hawg is perked, while the 7 isn't. Doesn't make much sense.

Someone said they wanted to see some variety. Well, I sure don't see much with the current setup. At any time, a good 1/3 of pilots are in either the N1K or the LA-7.

If HTC wants to use perks as some sorta kludge instead of a RPS in the MA, fine (though I'd rather see a RPS). But put some sense into the perk system.

D

Vector · « **Reply #49 on:** January 19, 2002, 02:09:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac

P-47D25: perk it cheaply. There's the d-11 and the d-30 is a tad slower than the d25.

No, actually D-25 is slowest jug (at the deck).
D-11 333/344
D-25 329/340
D-30 329/340 (I haven't test D-30 after WEP upgrade, but it sure is faster with wep than others)

But overall I like your idea of cheap perking. That wouldn't hurt anyone too much, would it? (Well, not in short term anyway

)
Jug drivers should have something to spend their perks for and until we get P-47N (

), D-30 would be fine.

Tjay · « **Reply #50 on:** January 19, 2002, 02:45:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tjay

...and it has a very short clip. And burns fuel like crazy. And the ballistics of those funny Russian cannon just don't seem as good as Hispanos.

...and will kill you in a second if you pull just a LITTLE too hard at low level.

Tac · « **Reply #51 on:** January 19, 2002, 06:16:11 PM »

You sure? I was convinced the d25 and d30 were the same machine in all respects except for the 30 having dive flaps and a boatload of ord options (and more drag because of the rails, should decrease top speed by a bit).

-ammo- · « **Reply #52 on:** January 19, 2002, 07:02:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
You sure? I was convinced the d25 and d30 were the same machine in all respects except for the 30 having dive flaps and a boatload of ord options (and more drag because of the rails, should decrease top speed by a bit).

yep, the D30 after the its wep upgrade will now climb at better than 3200 FPS at sea level. It is alos the best of the P-47's in my opinion. The D11 is a tad bit faster than the D25 in AH...dunno why. The D11 after it got its weight fixed is now very sluggish. It does not turn or yak any better than the the other 2 jugs IMO. In that regard they all seem about the same. The D30 performs better in the vertical now with its improved WEP. It will hang on the prop much better now.

J_A_B · « **Reply #53 on:** January 19, 2002, 07:22:57 PM »

"The orginal point is that the 7 is more competent in basically every flight regime than the F4U, and particularly all the ones which matter in the MA. "

Oh yeah?

Which plane can stay airborne longer?
Which plane has better guns?
Which plane has more ammo?
Which plane is available on carriers?
Which plane has decent performance over 10K?
Which plane is highly effective for JABO in addition to A2A?

The answer to all of the above, of course, if the F4U-1C. Just because you choose to ignore the 1C's advantages, doesn't mean it doesn't have any. Overall the 1C is a VASTLY better plane than the LA7 is.

J_A_B

Steven · « **Reply #54 on:** January 20, 2002, 11:39:04 AM »

Tumor,

<<>>
For who? What's worse, not being able to fight what you want to fight or not be able to fly what you want to fly?

Actually though, I like your answer and it goes with something along the lines that I believe. Especially now that we will be seeing some earlier war aircraft (which are my favorite), I think those planes that come after them should have perks attached to them. This is so that there IS a variety of aircraft flying in the arena and so that you WILL see Spit 1's, Hurr 1's, and ME-109E's flying in the arena (along with P40s and Wildcats when those are introduced.) So if you truly want variety, we will have to start seeing some perks in the near future attached to some of the aircraft people fly regularly now and which are some people's favorites. And along the lines of Wotan's beliefs.... get a 20-kill streak in a Wildcat and you can one day fly your beloved LA7.

Doberman · « **Reply #55 on:** January 20, 2002, 05:47:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
"The orginal point is that the 7 is more competent in basically every flight regime than the F4U, and particularly all the ones which matter in the MA. "

Oh yeah?

Which plane can stay airborne longer?
Which plane has better guns?
Which plane has more ammo?
Which plane is available on carriers?
Which plane has decent performance over 10K?
Which plane is highly effective for JABO in addition to A2A?

The answer to all of the above, of course, if the F4U-1C. Just because you choose to ignore the 1C's advantages, doesn't mean it doesn't have any. Overall the 1C is a VASTLY better plane than the LA7 is.

J_A_B

"Vastly"? You're quite incorrect. We're talking about general MA usage here. So staying airborn longer and performance above 10,000 feet are both relatively moot points. The addition of 1 cannon and a larger ammo load is a bonus in the C, but honestly, if you can't get it done with 3 20's you're not gonna get it done with 4 even if you can shoot 'em longer. Do you seriously consider availability from a carrier as a valid reason to perk a plane? The 7 ISN'T effective at ground work? Without rockekts, of course the 7 can't take out the hardened targets that the C can. But it's perfectly useful for general field & GV work.

I don't have a problem with the C being perked, if that's how HTC wants to try and control the MA. But as has been said here repeatedly, the 7 does basically every aspect of typical MA play better than the C. It's quicker, faster, climbs better and turns better. Seems to me it should be perked too.

D

Tac · « **Reply #56 on:** January 20, 2002, 07:44:56 PM »

Doberman, you show ignorance of the F4U-C's weaponry.

It has HISPANO cannons. The La7 has shvaks or that other VVS cannon... and both of the la7's cannon types have HORRIBLE ballistics, very short range and even worse refire rate. Not to mention the minute ammo load.

F4U-C has much higher refire rate, it can shoot up to d800 (sometimes d1.1 if you aim high and spray a bit) and kill with a single hit of its 4 cannons. Its generous ammo load helps a lot too.

La7's advantage is its monster engine, hi speed and e retention and for some reason, its a freaking tank to bring down, imo much harder than a p47.

The la7 is more SURVIVABLE in the MA, but its not even CLOSE to the effectiveness and versatility of the C-Hog.

And yes, the la7 should be cheaply perked too. i agree.

J_A_B · « **Reply #57 on:** January 20, 2002, 07:47:05 PM »

I still don't understand how you can discount the 1C's strengths just because you choose not to use them.

BTW, the reason the 1C is perked isn't because of its performance, its because when it was un-perked it began to screw up the game with 1K-plus 1 ping spray N pray kills becomming the norm.

J_A_B

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #58 on:** January 21, 2002, 02:14:44 AM »

J_A_B, we have Typhs with same weapon conf of 1C, same weapons range, same 1 ping/death capability. Add Spits, mossies and P38 to the hispano bag, none of them being perked.

In the case of the Typh, IMO, it is better performer than F4U, has similar jabo capability and has better range. ok, no carrier ops.

straffo · « **Reply #59 on:** January 21, 2002, 02:52:46 AM »

Man as you ever tried to turnfight with the tiffie ?

That's a challenge

But it's not that difficult with a Chog