Author Topic: One thing that piss me off about F4U  (Read 930 times)

Offline Jigster

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 107
      • http://www.33rd.org
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2001, 02:33:00 PM »
It's very easy to get shot down in the vertical by those two planes if you only manuver in one direction in the vertical. Even if only 1.5G's, keep trying to manuver, even if a stall is unavoidable, because that's often enough (with a lil' rudder, lil roll) to keep the F4U pulling too, to the point where it flicks out in that nasty little tail spin it's capable of. The N1K2 is going to have to work alot harder to land hits as well. But if you stall going near straight up, or remain in the climb as he follows you up, all these two planes have to do is add a bit of rudder and steady the nose for a kill blow.

If possible, a zoom climb faked into a vertical eight will pop the boogers every time  

------------------
Bessy
   
33rd FW www.33rd.org

There is no escaping Murphy's Law!
 
 

Offline Dead Man Flying

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6301
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2001, 03:05:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by -towd_:
hog dosent bleed e nearly enough adn handles like it weighs like a zeke. dont get me started on torque and hex editors

Nonsense.  In my mind, the Hog is one of the easier planes to kill in AH.  It's not particularly fast, and it doesn't turn particularly well except for the initial turn.  It does roll nicely (great for scissors), and the F4U-1C packs a real punch, but that's about it.

They're fodder for Typhoons IMO.

-- Todd/DMF


Beeking

  • Guest
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2001, 04:38:00 PM »
Hmmm... Im a bit higher, diving over the enemy, getting alot of energy and pulling up.
Hes basicaly at low E level flight, lower, pull up and catch me.

eh...

Its not about how to do the merge. Its about that the ONLY PLANES THIS DAMN THING HAPPENS IS THE DAMNED F4U AND THE N1K2!? AAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
I tryed F4u and N1K2 AND ITS JUST A JOKE!! VERY EASY, ANY BABY CAN FLY IT AND GET LOTS OF KILLS...
It cant be right. C A N T.

oh my God... i need some time away from games.. its driving me crazy...
bah!

ok ok Pirado, calm down... relax... easy easy... take a deep breath, close ur eyes...
Listen... u r not a programmer, u dont understand anything about it, u r just a poor addicted, u need help.

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2001, 07:16:00 PM »
Stop the easy meat non sense show off  

The corsair is pretty fast, it outruns my P47 at low alt. It's like any plane, if flown the way it's supposed to be flown, it's a killer.

Check KBman stats who flies Chog only. He comes in, make passes aiming for the snap shots thx to the powerfull guns, turnfight a little if "it looks safe", then run when it starts to get nasty, grab and come back. That may be frustrating, but that's the way to fly a Chog and he is doing great in it.

What make u think it's easy meat is the horde of dweebs who fly it because they can get "instant reward" thank to those few ping deaths but have very little clue of ACM stuff.

Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline Dead Man Flying

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6301
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2001, 08:14:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
Stop the easy meat non sense show off  

The Hog IS easy meat relative to most of the planes in AH, at least in a 1v1, co-alt, co-E situation.

And you'll know if I'm showing off; I wasn't.

Quote
The corsair is pretty fast, it outruns my P47 at low alt. It's like any plane, if flown the way it's supposed to be flown, it's a killer. [/b]

I think that goes without saying.  However, I was responding to Towd's assertion that the Hog turns like a Zeke and exhibits otherwise extraterrestrial properties.  That's not true, and someone who flies it that way is asking for a spanking.

Quote
Check KBman stats who flies Chog only. He comes in, make passes aiming for the snap shots thx to the powerfull guns, turnfight a little if "it looks safe", then run when it starts to get nasty, grab and come back. That may be frustrating, but that's the way to fly a Chog and he is doing great in it.[/b]

Such a technique works well in just about any plane.  It works particularly well in the cannon Hog because all you need is one hit to remove a wing.

Quote
What make u think it's easy meat is the horde of dweebs who fly it because they can get "instant reward" thank to those few ping deaths but have very little clue of ACM stuff.[/b]

Hm.  Nope, though these hordes of dweebs surely do give the cannon Hog a bad name.  However, I stand by my statement that Towd is incorrect about the flight characteristics of the Hog insofar as dogfighting goes.  Except for the great guns, it's a mediocre dogfighter that does its best work in the first turn or two.  I'd rank it right near the Typhoon in dogfighting ability... a bit poorer in sustained turnrate, but a lot better in roll rate.

-- Todd/DMF


funked

  • Guest
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2001, 12:30:00 AM »
Another victim of vertical lead turns...
Hint:  he's not flying faster than you, he's just traveling along a shorter distance.

Offline gatt

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2441
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2001, 03:49:00 AM »
I've whined a lot in the past about it. Now I've learned to live with it. The biggest problem is to judge the C-Hog's E state and attitude. If the Hog is fast sometimes 2-3K of alt advantage are not enuff to keep his 20mm shells away from you. Same thing when you attack ... you have always to be aware that he can pull up his nose and spray you with cannons. Now I know it and I've developed a special Situational Awareness for those kites, and Nikis as well. Fast Spitfire IXs and Typhoons can do also amazing things. Just be aware of it.

The biggest part of C-Hog drivers are green, especially those vulching fields from CV groups. They are not a big threat.
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline Lephturn

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1200
      • http://lephturn.webhop.net
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2001, 08:02:00 AM »
I've yet to see one single film of a Hog or N1k2 doing anything "uber".

Ever notice that it's only "uber" to the guys that get shot down by it?  You would think that at least ONE of these guys would be able to take that same plane offline and duplicate that feat and film it.  Strange, I've never seen that.

I know it's tough to accept guys, but the truth is there is nothing uber about either the George or the Hog.  All the hard evidence points to the FM's being correct, and I have not seen one shred of hard evidence that these planes have anything major wrong.  In all of these "analogies" the protagonist just got his bellybutton handed to him by a better pilot and it's easier to scream "UBER" than it is to admit he blew it and died.  I know, I've done the same thing myself, I'll admit it.      It's that whole ego thing, and we all have the same instinctive reaction, at least at first.  Every time I've had that reaction, I've taken the plane in question and done a bit of testing in the TA in it.  My conclusion is always that the planes are just fine, and that I flat got beat.  

The best thing to do is suck it up and ask the other fellow what your mistake was.  If you are lucky he'll tell you and you might learn something.    

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"


[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 02-02-2001).]

Beeking

  • Guest
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2001, 09:56:00 AM »
Thanks for help gents
Looks like i need to expend more time in Training Arena.


Pirado



Offline CRASH

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 186
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2001, 12:21:00 PM »
It's my understanding that ht has stated that the niks numbers are not quite right when it comes to e retention and that they would work on it.  Until its fixed I never rerverse from the vertical until I actually seen the niks nose drop.  If it doesn't drop or appears to be gaining I drop my nose and run fer seperation.  

Offline Lephturn

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1200
      • http://lephturn.webhop.net
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2001, 01:30:00 PM »
Crash,

What you REALLY have to watch out for is the smart pilots out there that will FAKE that move.    Cit did this to me last week in his P-38.  I had been working a lower P-38, and after a few passes I went vertical in my Jug, he rolled back onto my tail and zoomed with me.  At this point I am drooling, since it is a classic rope-a-dope and when he stalls below me he is going to die fast.  I see his nose drop!  I pull down for the kill and... the bastard turned around and killed me!  D'oh.  He had faked the stall and sucked me in.

A good N1k2 driver will fake the stall as well, and use his fantastic acceleration to gain E while he does it.  A short 0 G dive looks very much like a stall if you are watching from above.

Even at the start of a fight, it is not that difficult to disguise your E.  If I did not disguise my E in the Jug, I would get far fewer kills.  I just use my flight path and altitude to conceal my E state.  The most elementary form of this is to dive before entering icon range with the bogey and put your E into speed instead of alt.  Then you try not to head directly at the bandit, but use lag pursuit to minimize closure.  If you are lower and not closing at too great a rate, the enemy will normally mis-judge your energy state.  This works well in any of the better high-speed handling planes like the Jug, the Hellcat, the Pony, and the FW that tend to retain energy well at high speed.  Since your E state is normally judged mostly by altitude, you can disguise your true E state by using speed instead.

That, IMHO, is the root source of almost all of the reports like the ones outlined above.    Judging a bogey's energy state is one of the most difficult things to do in air combat.  Add to that the fact that any veteran flight sim pilot will do his best to hide his true energy state, and you will find that you frequently mis-judge the energy state of the other guy.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 02-02-2001).]

Offline Lephturn

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1200
      • http://lephturn.webhop.net
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2001, 11:43:00 AM »
This thread should be <punt>ed back to the top!  

Offline Westy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2871
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2001, 12:10:00 PM »
 Another good "fake" that I have used lately and it works surprisingly well is to do a lazy barrel roll when chasing a fleeing bogy who is just out of range of a good. lethal shot (1K-2K) but not too far gone in getting away.  In thier view the range counter suddenly changes dramaticaly while they watch you in thier '"six" view and most pilots think you've reversed and given up.  When in actuality nothing of the sort happened. Most times these folks think they are now able to turn the tables on you and become the attacker. Well, when they move, up left, right - whatever, they blow their distance cushion rather quick as they turn back at you.  Usually it's too late that they discover their error.

Well....  It's a new trick to me anyway.  

  -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-03-2001).]

Offline Lephturn

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1200
      • http://lephturn.webhop.net
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2001, 12:54:00 PM »
Good one Westy.  

Although, as a Jug pilot, I'm normally the chasee not the chaser.  

Anybody esle with some good "fake" moves or ways to hide your true energy state?

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

Offline Westy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2871
One thing that piss me off about F4U
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2001, 01:01:00 PM »
 Thanks Lephturn. I'ld like to add, so it doesn't appear to be pure "gaming the game" via cashing in on the unreality of the icon, that the bogy also sees your nose change direction in the roll and that is what I think puts the nail in the coffin, so to speak.  But you I cannot lie and say that this is not using the icon unrealistically.  If there was no icon, this move probably would not work most of the time.

 -Westy