Author Topic: The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)  (Read 1175 times)

Offline Westy

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2001, 09:42:00 AM »
"P.S almost forgot how many % of the WB playerbase have played in the WWII arena?  "

 About  80% and all on the Allied side when it turns late war and then begins the a cluster fudges against about 12 Axis pilots.  

 -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-05-2001).]

Offline Vermillion

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2001, 09:44:00 AM »
 
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No I don't because most of them are scheduled to times which are middle of the night for me.

9:00PM is the middle of the night for you? We took great pains in scheduling our events so that European players could participate.  And we also try to hold an "in timezone" event every 2 weeks or so for our Pac Rim/Aussie contingent.

 
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Events are already obsolete idea because they are run on specific times only

*sarcasm mode on* So we should just run them at random times, with only a 15 minute announcement prior to holding them? Sheesh. */sarcasm mode off*

Sorry, but an HA arena is still just an arena. Its not a substitute for planned events, and large scale scenarios, no matter what you say. Basically an HA is just another free for all arena, with just slightly different rules.

Your arguement earlier in the thread was that there are too few events, and they are low quality. So I disprove that, and you change your arguement to "Its not convient for me" and its not as good as full time arena. Well, I think most people would agree with me that, these points are just as invalid.

Promote the start of an HA all you want, I don't care either way myself, but I understand yours and others desire to have one.

But all I ask is that you don't wrongly slander and denigrade the Scenario Corps and all its hard working volunteers to try and prove your point.

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Vermillion
Senior CM, Aces High Scenario Corps

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 02-05-2001).]

Offline Jekyll

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2001, 04:51:00 PM »
 
Quote
Do YOU attend all the events?

Hmm lets see Verm.  Just when were the Afrika Korps frames held?  Sunday nights?

That works out to middle of the day on Monday for the Australians/Asians.

OK, how about the Snapshots?  Saturdays 3pm EST, which works out about 5am Sunday morning for me.  I suppose I don't really need to sleep in on the one day of the week I get a chance to do so.  

Why not try out the Check 6 events?  Oops, 4pm to 6pm Sunday makes it around 9am Monday for me.  The boss might not approve  

Oh wow..  a Tour of Duty.  Perfect    Oops,  Thursday nights translates to midday Friday for me.  Ditto re the boss.

Honestly verm, when the timings for Afrika Korps were first released I posted regarding the unsuitability for Pac/Asian timezone.

Or do you regard 'middle of the working day' as a convenient time for non-US players?

Easy to see that this is a US-based sim, isn't it?  

Offline Kieren

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2001, 05:08:00 PM »
Let's try a little logic.

The scenario team is made of people from American, Italian, and Japanese time zones. If you want events run, they will naturally fall during those times. If those times don't work out, join the team and set up some time zone friendly events yourself.

Verm makes a good point. Slandering a volunteer group is not going to get you anywhere. I have a lot more respect for people that get active in the creation of what they want to see than those that sit back and squeak nonstop that it just isn't right. Plenty of people have done just that, it isn't hard to do.

I was happy to serve with those guys, but real life got too involved this year to maintain a position. It was still a very informative experience and I would think three times before I squeak at anyone about the volunteer work they do.

Offline Hangtime

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2001, 05:21:00 PM »
Get a count of Eastern pacific pilots on.. get 'em together; form a committie, put up yer own scenarios appropriate for your time zone... wallah; problem of 'scenarios for time-zone disadvantaged pilots' solved.

And I still want a HA. Full time. Since most seem to think that there is 'not a large enuff player base' to support a HA; lemme say that pilot populations during prime time for the Eastern Seaboard of the US has NO PROBLEM producing an overfull; warpy; laggy; dismal playing MA RIGHT NOW.

Resouces required by HTC.. looks like NONE to me. there's an empty SEA sittin there right now.. reconfigure THAT as an RPS HA, allied vs axis. LET US DECIDE..we'll vote it by appearance. The rest of this BBS HA noise is just that..

NOISE.

It's time.. lets have a HA where we WON'T have Pony's vs chogs and N1k's vs 109's, where we WONT have a damn AWACS radar.. etc.

How 'bout it HTC.. is it time yet?

 




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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2001, 06:49:00 PM »
Well, since there are only 3 that I know of from Hawaii, I don't think we can come up with our own scenarios   I like Hang's idea, change the ghost town Med Sea into a HA for a few weeks(but use a different map).

chisel

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2001, 09:48:00 PM »
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vermillion:
And I will bet you a fine bottle of liquor of your choice that our CM team puts out more large scale events during the next year than the WB's team does.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will this bet include scenarios put on by the Warbirds S3 janitors?

funked

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2001, 10:03:00 PM »
Jekyll you are still crying about that?  Since you are so smart, why don't you figure out a time that will work for European, US, and Pacific time players?  It doesn't exist.

What about the Japanese Snapshot events.  Those are great fun and not in the middle of the night for you.  Why don't you fly those?

Offline Jekyll

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2001, 11:48:00 PM »
I'm glad to realise that you think a member of the AH community is 'crying' when he would dearly like to take part in an organised event, but cannot due to its US-centric timing.  

And funked, for Afrika Korps any time on a Saturday would have been fine.  Saturday night US equates to Sunday morning for me - well worth getting up early for an organised scenario.  Would it have been SO hard for the US organisers to time the event so as to include the Asia/Pacific members?

Japanese snapshots?  I've flown quite a few.  I wonder how many snapshots YOU would fly funked if they often ended at 2am Monday morning for you?



[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 02-05-2001).]

Offline Maniac

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2001, 12:47:00 AM »
The thing is that an HA (WWII arena or wathever u want to call it) would be an success today... AH has an great number of pilots who have flown in the current MA concept for an X couple of years and is longing for an different setup.

The real problem is that an HA would drain the MA from pilots and thus preventing new guys from joining up because the main is empty and the HA perhaps is too restricted for em.

If we get an arena setup with axis vs allies, the med map or anyone of Nuttz maps, revised icon settings (i dont meen no icons) i can guarantee about 30-35 pilots on european times and some more when the US gets off work.

The differance between djust saying : Go in to the med and have an gentlemans agreement and set up your own HA against having an HA setup 24/7 is imho huge...

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Offline Torgo

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2001, 02:57:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Jochen:
WWIIOL could be aimed for hardcore pilots and players while WB, AH and FA server quake pilots. Do you see it? Earlier there were arenas to server different needs, now there is different sims instead of arenas.

I think in terms of air combat people are getting their AH "quakers" and WWIIOnline "realism" mixed up.

Read this BBS. Go read the WWIIOnline BBS. Tell me which one has more Quakeheads, hmmm?

And I seriously doubt the air combat portion of WWWIIOL is more "Realistic" than AH. For one thing, it's not the focus of the game.
And it's intended for a mass market. I'll frankly be shocked beyond belief if WWIIOL has a more realistic/difficult flight model, tougher icon settings, etc. than AH.

They're starting out with 5 fighters and 9 planes overall. By the time they get Open Beta, than Open Beta ends, then they finish the first theatre, and then start a new theatre and finally add some more planes, do you realize that's probably at least 2 years from now? How many planes will AH have by then? 100?

Sure, I'll fool around in WWIIOnline when it is in Open Beta..no reason not to.

But I agree with HTC it's not really direct competition. (And I suspect we're up to AH 1.10 by the time WWIIOL open beta begins :-)


Offline Jochen

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2001, 03:07:00 AM »
 
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9:00PM is the middle of the night for you? We took great pains in scheduling our events so that European players could participate. And we also try to hold an "in timezone" event every 2 weeks or so for our Pac Rim/Aussie contingent.

Yeah baby yeah!!! For 30$ investment per month I can fly in total four max two hour historical events? And few large sccenarios per year if I can wake up early enough and skip work next day?

Do you see the problem with events? If you want historical action, events are not good value for money, atleast if you live outside of US. I can't plan my weekends around events having girlfriend and bunch of other hobbies, I can fly only in random times and I have seen total of one event announcement while I was flying online and I had to skip even that because I was just leaving to gym so I was unable to attend.

 
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*sarcasm mode on* So we should just run them at random times, with only a 15 minute announcement prior to holding them? Sheesh. */sarcasm mode off*

No, run something that offers historical action all the time maybe. The answer should be quite obvious? Sheesh.

That was sarcasm too.

 
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Sorry, but an HA arena is still just an arena. Its not a substitute for planned events, and large scale scenarios, no matter what you say. Basically an HA is just another free for all arena, with just slightly different rules.

Historical sides and limited planeset with accurate map is just free for all arena with slightly different rules? roadkille I say. In contrast I could say that events are free for all arena with slightly different rules that is only open in extremely limited time.

Arena like that (historical everything) would give possibility to run event like sorties and missions unlike current MA. And it would be possible to do it all the time so it would suit players that cannot participate most events because of their schedule. And number of those players that cannot participate events is high I think.

 
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Your arguement earlier in the thread was that there are too few events, and they are low quality.

Don't twist my words my fiend.

I stated that there is too few events to satisfy pilots that want to fly historically, atleast for me. I didn't say anything about event quality, or did I?

 
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So I disprove that, and you change your arguement to "Its not convient for me" and its not as good as full time arena. Well, I think most people would agree with me that, these points are just as invalid.

Ummm... If most of the events are not in convinient time for me or many other pilots doesn't that mean that it is not as good as full time arena where they could fly anytime they want in the way they want?

[/quote]Promote the start of an HA all you want, I don't care either way myself, but I understand yours and others desire to have one.[/quote]

If you look messages I have wrote in this thread I haven't said I want new arena like AH because I don't think it will work. So I don't promote HA.

I have stated merits of HA in this message to counter your claims but it still does not mean that I want HA to AH because I don't think it would work. There is one popular arena that tells what kind of sim Ah or WWIIOL is. Underpopulated HA means nothing.

 
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But all I ask is that you don't wrongly slander and denigrade the Scenario Corps and all its hard working volunteers to try and prove your point.

<snippage!>

Those hardcore pilots are the ones that run events in WB and would run them in AH too if we would have enough of them. If AH cannot atract enough hardcore players I doubt we will ever see events such are seen in WB which means that AH degenerates to aerial quake with few late -40's jet planes and prop planes that never saw action.

Ok, where is the slander part?

I think you have said that you have cancelled events because not enough pilots have shown interest towards them? Right? Doesn that mean that there is not enough historically inclined (hardcore) pilots to support events? Huh?

Not enough hardcore pilots -> no events and no HA.

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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline Maniac

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2001, 04:12:00 AM »
<snip>

lol posted in the wrong thread

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[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 02-06-2001).]
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Offline Laika

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2001, 04:43:00 AM »
posted by Jekyll:
I'm glad to realise that you think a member of the AH community is 'crying' when he would dearly like to take part in an organised event, but cannot due to its US-centric timing.  

And funked, for Afrika Korps any time on a Saturday would have been fine.  Saturday night US equates to Sunday morning for me - well worth getting up early for an organised scenario.  Would it have been SO hard for the US organisers to time the event so as to include the Asia/Pacific members?

Japanese snapshots?  I've flown quite a few.  I wonder how many snapshots YOU would fly funked if they often ended at 2am Monday morning for you?



I'm pretty much with Jekyll here, I’m flying out of the west cost of Oz looking for something like a HA or regular event that has workable hours…

snip….OK, how about the Snapshots? Saturdays 3pm EST, which works out about 5am Sunday….snip

MMmmm.. works out to 2 or 3am(DLS) west coast time

Afrika Korps  ? Monday day time for me    …

The US drags its bellybutton as far as time zones go and they put a big event on a Sunday night ? Sh*t whats wrong with Friday night thru to Sat night US time ? I rolled at just on 3am (local) Sunday morning for WB’s Point Blank, my girlfriend thought I’d lost it (maybe I have)   Don’t you guys want to include asia/pac ?    

Aces Chog has great FM’s but was hoping for little taste of history now and then, too much to ask ?..  



Offline Jekyll

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The HA issue (or 2nd arena issue if u like)
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2001, 07:43:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Torgo:


And I seriously doubt the air combat portion of WWWIIOL is more "Realistic" than AH. For one thing, it's not the focus of the game.
And it's intended for a mass market. I'll frankly be shocked beyond belief if WWIIOL has a more realistic/difficult flight model, tougher icon settings, etc. than AH.

Hmm, wonder if the WW2OL aircraft will go faster with parts missing as easily as they do in AH?  Don't know about tougher icons settings, though for the life of me I cannot think of any EASIER settings than AH!  Oh yes I can, maybe WW2OL icons can accurately measure distance to the inch, rather than the yard  

Quote
They're starting out with 5 fighters and 9 planes overall. By the time they get Open Beta, than Open Beta ends, then they finish the first theatre, and then start a new theatre and finally add some more planes, do you realize that's probably at least 2 years from now? How many planes will AH have by then? 100?[/b]

Well, WB currently has over 50 aircraft.  Do you therefore believe its a better game than AH?  Size DOES matter, eh Torgo  

 
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Sure, I'll fool around in WWIIOnline when it is in Open Beta..no reason not to.

But I agree with HTC it's not really direct competition. (And I suspect we're up to AH 1.10 by the time WWIIOL open beta begins :-)

[/b]

Of course AH is not in competition with WW2OL.  AH is in competition with Fighter Ace, Air Warrior, Warbirds, CFS2 and every other boxed flight game on the market.

And you want it to try to compete with WW2OL as well?

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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11

[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 02-06-2001).]