Author Topic: Condors, submarines and CV groups  (Read 251 times)

Offline MANDOBLE

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
      • http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« on: January 29, 2002, 04:15:02 AM »
Here is a very interesting idea about how to implement "very slow" submarines in AH.

First, a bit of history:
Germans used the Fw200C to discover and track enemy convoys along the Atlantic ocean. These planes had the FuG 200 radar and, in some cases, where armed with guided bombs (Fritz) or missiles (Hs). Once they discover a convoy, they caculate intercetion courses and coordinate several submarine wolfpacks to attack the enemy group. These planes, with their radar and an enormous range where like actual Nimrods, making very long patrols over the sea.


Now the mechanism:
Each country has as many wolfpacks as CV groups, all of them are also built at the ports, but they are not, initially, seen as an active icon traveling by the sea. They are just in a pool of "available wolfpacks" without a possition on the map.

Now you pick up a Fw200 and start patrolling, for example, the SW quadrants at Mindanao looking for enemy CVs. At some point, a big red dot is shown in your clipboard map, one quadrant away of you, in the middle of the sea. You have discovered an enemy CV group with your FuG200 radar. Now you aproach the enemy group, and, once near it, you switch from pilot to bombardier possition, looking throught the bomb-sight. At some point, you click the "B" button and, if available in the wolfpack pool, a wolfpack of three subs is summoned 3 miles away of the bombsight cencer (the marked point), heading towards your Fw200 (that is, with your same course). Now the wolfpack is an active unit, shown in the map the same way a friendly CV group with a different designation letter ("W"?). That group of submarines is removed from the available wolfpacks pool and may be controled by players. The Fw200 pilot will be the player with most privileges to control that wolfpack, setting up waypoints and depth/speed for each one as well as a general "maximum torpedo firing range". There is a single player commanding the wolfpack, but, as with the CV groups, any other player can join AA possitions or main gun pos for any of the three submarines. The wolfpack commander will have a key to activate a "periscope view", even if still airborne in the Fw200. From this view, the commander may designate/undesignate targets for the three submarines. Once there is a designated target, the submarines will start automatically an interception maneouver, and, once into the firing range marked by the commander, they will start to shoot at the designed target. While no target is designated, the wolfpack will continue to follow the marked waypoints/depths/speeds. If the wolfpack is uncommanded for more than 10 mins (the commander gives up command and no other takes it), the wolfpack is deactivated and returns to the "available wolfpack" pool.

Each Fw200 may summon a single wolfpack per sortie. That way, a pair of Fw200 may surround a CV group summoning two wolfpacks (6 subs) with different interception courses, giving the CV little chances of flee.

Offline Naso

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1535
      • http://www.4stormo.it
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2002, 04:26:20 AM »
Very interesting idea Mandoble.

HTC, I vote for Mandoble's idea. :)

Offline Critter

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2002, 09:03:23 AM »
eh...


 why don't we just have mannable subs with high perk values? that would cut down on the numbers of subs and it would give some people what they REALLY want

Offline MANDOBLE

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
      • http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2002, 09:26:25 AM »
Critter,
If you are a hardcore submarine adict, you will agree that to have this, a realy lot of new development will be needed. These machines were much more complex than a fighter.

If you want to drive subs just to have fun firing a lot of torps, you will find that these machines are much more slower and less maneuverables than PTs, and you will need a ton of patience with them.

What about driving a carrier or a destroyer?

Offline whels

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1517
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2002, 10:31:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Critter,
If you are a hardcore submarine adict, you will agree that to have this, a realy lot of new development will be needed. These machines were much more complex than a fighter.

If you want to drive subs just to have fun firing a lot of torps, you will find that these machines are much more slower and less maneuverables than PTs, and you will need a ton of patience with them.

What about driving a carrier or a destroyer?


add a Catalyna PBY  for same mission as FW200C.

also PBY could be used for sector radar  if HQ or field dar is down.
since it was used to scout and rescue.

whels

Offline MANDOBLE

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
      • http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2002, 11:03:22 AM »
Agree about the Catalina, but these planes will need to locate en emy CVs visualy, not by radar as the Fw200.

Offline Furious

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3243
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2002, 04:46:09 PM »
If there are subs, the Destroyers should be detachable from the TG in order to intercept and destoy the subs.

"Depth charge away!"


F.

Offline lemur

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2002, 04:57:54 PM »
I think these are great ideas

FOR ME TO POOP ON.

Seriously? I think adding recon planes (that function when the radar is down) would be cool. But automajic wolfpacks? Oy.

Seems like a lot of firepower to summon from just one plane. Plus it distracts a bit from the 'CV vs. CV' action.

I think it'd work great if floating resupply convoys were implmented and subs could only be used to take those out. And it'd be closer to how these planes were historically used (since subs were mostly anti-shipping)

~Lemur

Offline ra

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3569
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2002, 05:33:38 PM »
Allies developed airborne radar too, that's why wolfpacks became scarce.  The Condor would be a PoS, it's speed was similar to that of the C-47.
Some more useful planes which also used ASV radar where the Hudson, Liberator, and Beaufort.  Even the Swordfish could carry radar.  Doesn't our TBM have radar antennae?  Maybe it had radar too.  

If we get surface radar for aircraft we may as well chose a model of aircraft which has multiple uses in AH.

ra

Offline Wilbus

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4472
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2002, 05:39:37 AM »
Good idea Madno, although I don't quite like the idea of the pilto commadning the Subs, as soon as someone joins a sub he should be the commander. Think HTC has really thought about something though, remember reading that you set waypoints for a sub, then once it reaches the target you can command it.

The FW200 would be cool however, like RA said it is slow and armement isn't all that powerfull.

What I'd like to see if a Junkers JU290 instead, Range 6150Km (3,821 Miles) compared to 3560 Km (2,212 miles) of the FW200.
Speed at 19k was 273Mph compared to the FW200 of 224Mph max speed (don't know the alt).
Arement (now this is plain cruel) 2 Top turrets, both streamlined wich gave low drag, both equiped with 1x20mm MG151 each.
Tail gun where the gunner sat up, 1x20mm MG151 gun.
Ventral gondola (nose gondola like the JU88) with one forward fireing MG151 20mm gun and one read fireing Mg131 13mm heavy MG and 2xMG151 20mm guns firing from Aft Waist position.

That makes 6x20mm high velocity guns and 1x13mm high velocity gun.
Gotto aproch this plane carefully or you'll find yer self full of big 20mm's holes.

This plane could allso carry difefrent kind of missiles. The A7 had an extra 20mm gun in a glazed nose turret.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Wilbus

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4472
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2002, 05:44:28 AM »
To add allso, this plane allso worked as a transport and it carried both troops and material. Would be a nice goon IMO :)
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Poony

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Condors, submarines and CV groups
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2002, 07:06:35 AM »
Then ya gota have Sea Hurricanes on the merchants launched off a catapult!!  :)

Cool!