Author Topic: presidential order (Read 1218 times)

Pongo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2002, 10:33:50 AM »

As long as apathy isnt apathetic about the increase in welfare and crime that will accompany the banning of abortion..
Wonder how jr would like a president passing a non-faith based initiative? "
George moves his war on terrorism into the bible thumpers true battle ground of choice. Every womans body. The Taliban would be proud.
Apperantly you can get your head big enough from your war based support that the seperation of church and state can seem to be a inconvienent notion.

midnight Target · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2002, 10:39:42 AM »

Legislating morality is dangerous. Who's morality do we go with? I wonder what would happen if only women were allowed to vote on the abortion rights issue?

Informed people can and do disagree on when life begins. The government needs to stay the hell out of this issue.

Udie at Work · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2002, 10:41:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
As long as apathy isnt apathetic about the increase in welfare and crime that will accompany the banning of abortion..
Wonder how jr would like a president passing a non-faith based initiative? "
George moves his war on terrorism into the bible thumpers true battle ground of choice. Every womans body. The Taliban would be proud.
Apperantly you can get your head big enough from your war based support that the seperation of church and state can seem to be a inconvienent notion.

Ummm he didn't outlaw abortion. All they did is make a classificatoin so that poor pregnant women can get prenatal medical treatment. Hopefuly this is the first step in changing the hearts and minds of the American people on this "issue" which is the way he thinks this issue needs to be handled (he's been saying this for years before he ran for president)

oh yeah a big F__K you for compairing him to the taliban...

Eagler · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2002, 10:52:35 AM »

if the "mother" is too stupid to realize that the person who is riding around in her stomach for nine months, oh yeah - and didn't have a choice in being put there - deserves the same rights as she, someone better point it out to her...

face the facts, abortion is used primarily as the "oops" birth control .. Period !!

its just the another reflection of the " if feels good, do it " society in which we now live

capt. apathy · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2002, 10:53:16 AM »

What the hell does eating meat have to do with it?

And no, I haven't adopted any kids, however I do take care of my own. I was an 18 yr. old senior in highschool when my girlfriend (now my wife) became pregnant.

I am pro-choice and the choices where clear,
1. Get married and raise the child together.
2. She raises the child and I pay support and am an active partner in raising my child.
3. If she wasn't ready to take the responsibility of a child she could have the child and I’d raise it myself, she could be as involved or not as she chose.

I made many sacrifices to provide for my children and my life was much more difficult than it could have been if I’d taken the easy way out.

Often I worked 7 days a week 12 hours a day, several times I’d work those hours with nothing to eat for several days (except occasionally someone at work would realize I’m not eating and sharing their lunch, thanks again man) to make sure there was enough food so my kids never missed a meal.

I went for an 8-year stretch where the only shoes I owned where work boots.

And I never once regretted the decision to not murder my child.

Most of the problems of this world would be solved if people would just step up to the responsibilities life presents them with instead of looking for someone else to take the fall for them.

How anybody could let a baby take the responsibility for their actions is beyond me.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2002, 10:59:11 AM »

I've just gotta say that now that I've watched my children grow up...that I could never make that decision to end a pregnancy. I do think there are instances in which it's warranted, but it shouldn't be used for birth control. Kudos to GW for providing pregnant women in need with health care.

Eagler · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2002, 10:59:32 AM »

capt. apathy
"And no, I haven't adopted any kids, however I do take care of my own. I was an 18 yr. old senior in highschool when my girlfriend (now my wife) became pregnant."

~~I was a freshman in college and girlfriend of 1.5 years (now my wife of over 23 years) was a senior in our High School. Had the same situation, made the same choice(s).~~

capt. apathy · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2002, 11:00:53 AM »

Quote

As long as apathy isnt apathetic about the increase in welfare and crime that will accompany the banning of abortion..

I don't think welfare and crime would increase, if people actually took responsibility for their actions, kids would see the role models and be more responsible in turn.

The lack of responsibility for the consequences of your actions IMO is the leading cause of crime and lifetime welfare recipients.

Hortlund · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2002, 11:04:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mighty1
Wait what about girls who give head? Maybe we should pass a law that says they have to swallow so the sperm has a chance to some how become a fetus.

What the hell were you doing in biology class? Because obviously you weren't paying attention to the teacher.

Biology 101
In order for sperm to become a baby it has to enter the female body at a certain location (not the mouth). Contrary to popular belief swallowing sperm will not get you pregnant.

-dead- · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2002, 11:10:41 AM »

Quote

What the hell were you doing in biology class? Because obviously you weren't paying attention to the teacher. What the

Biology 101
In order for sperm to become a baby it has to enter the female body at a certain location (not the mouth). Contrary to popular belief swallowing sperm will not get you pregnant.

Shhhh... right-to-lifers don't hold with all that new-fangled scientific larnin' - they reckon the big G created them in one actual day out of mud and a man'd be a fool and communist to disagree with them.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #25 on:** February 01, 2002, 11:11:36 AM »

Yeah, all we need is more low income kids coming out of the ghetto to later get their gun toting licenses and gang banger attitudes with their criminal rapsheet.

75% of DC's convincted criminals comes from a low income family with multiple children and recieving welfare. They may or may not have had a dad.

Not all life is precious, especially when they're out to end yours.
-SW

Udie at Work · « **Reply #26 on:** February 01, 2002, 11:39:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Yeah, all we need is more low income kids coming out of the ghetto to later get their gun toting licenses and gang banger attitudes with their criminal rapsheet.

75% of DC's convincted criminals comes from a low income family with multiple children and recieving welfare. They may or may not have had a dad.

Not all life is precious, especially when they're out to end yours.
-SW

Yeah you're right. Why give them a chance, you know once a bad apple always a bad apple. Mom's a potato and dad's a crack head, there's no way they can turn out right so let's just off em before they get a chance to breath.

As a matter of fact that sounds so good why don't we go ahead and kill the ones that already came out too, I mean gosh we're only trying to save them from a hard life.

ra · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2002, 11:49:43 AM »

<<>>

This has nothing to do with legislating morality, it's just allowing a mother to CHOOSE whether or not the baby the carries is an unborn human who qualifies for medical support. 'Choice' is what you 'pro choicers' want, isn't it? Many mothers will still choose to have an abortion, so you should be happy.

ra

StSanta · « **Reply #28 on:** February 01, 2002, 11:54:33 AM »

What the hell were you doing in biology class? Because obviously you weren't paying attention to the teacher.

Biology 101
In order for sperm to become a baby it has to enter the female body at a certain location (not the mouth). Contrary to popular belief swallowing sperm will not get you pregnant.

Well, by killing one little swimming spermskie, you've eradicated one potential human.

Much the same way a potential human has been eradicated when a woman has a spontaneous abortion (and these, my friends, are not rare).

When two cells become four, and then stop developing - there goes another potential human.

A li'l lump of human DNA is indeed human - but it is not a human. It is important to be able to distinguish between the potential and the actual - in this case between that which is human, and that which is a human.

Docs will have a hard time determining when the switch takes place, and I guess that's where the controversy starts - although many religious people make an argument of faith. One that is valid I suppose. But faith is a personal thing and should not be imposed on others.

A zygote or fetus is as much as human being as a strand of hair - it is indeed human, but it is not a human. The difference between the two lies in the potential - but it does not take much to prove that the potential is not the actual.

I have the potential of winning one million dollar in the next two days. It probably won't materialize. On the other hand, a zygote, given proper nutrition through its host organism, has a higher chance of becoming a human being than I have of being the first human owning a caravan in the middle of the sun.

And this is interesting. Now we're down to probability. Should we judge based on probability?

Of course, granting a parasite organism personhood raises a lot of legal questions as well.

It's no secret that I am pro choice. Neither is it a secret that I want the right to own a gun, and thus be able to better defend myself, leaving my fate up to myself in case the toejame hits the fan.

Am also very much against the huge welfare socialistic redistribution of wealth thing we have going here - along with the "everyone is equal" roadkille. We're not equal, and it is a folly to pretend we are. So I want a minimalistic state.

On the other hand, I want the 'outside' variables to be the same for everyone - equal access to universities and medical facilities, with the former of course being based on a competitive system. It's like giving two students a pen, a paper, and a test, and deciding who to hire based on the test - I *do* want *both* to have a pen and a paper.

So, despite me being pro choice, I think it's hard to label me a leftist. Or a liberal.

Actually, I *AM* a liberal - a European liberal. 'Liberal' in the US means quite the opposite of what it does in Europe.

In addition, I think it would be nice if people using 'liberal' as a bad word (be they US conservatives or European socialists) should go to http://www.dict.org and enter the word 'liberal'. That word has been bastardized enormously by a quite ethnocentric group in North America

.

Us Europeans will be ethnocentric too - we are just waiting to be powerful enough to be just that

.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #29 on:** February 01, 2002, 12:08:22 PM »

Maybe the problem we're having with a lot of the kids recently is the have been raised be a generation that hasn't been required to bear responsibility for their actions.

Most of the troubled kids I meet have parents who also don't take responsibility.

Parents who take responsibility for their own actions generally raise kids who also take responsibility.

Since I was in 7th grade it was drummed into my head not to forget that you have the 'right to choose' not to be responsible for your actions (it's much worse now that my kids are in school).

You have the right to choose, you can choose to sleep with someone or not.
You can choose to protect yourself (from pregnancy as well as disease)
You can choose to go to school or not
You have many choices in life, but once you make a choice take responsibility for your choice and the consequences.
The choice to have sex is an adult choice; adult choices come with adult consequences.
Not ready for the consequences? Don’t make that choice.

People are more in need of backbone and determination than they are in an 'easy' way out.

Btw, when they tell you about the risks of pregnancy to your health and all their other medical 'facts' why do they always fail to mention the women I meet, some who are in their late 40's and still crying about the baby they killed, and how it all happened so fast? How they went to planed parenthood to investigate the 'option' and the staff just started talking to them as if abortion was the only logical option and before they had time to think it was a done deal.