Author Topic: Avoiding collisions ?  (Read 392 times)

Offline Saintaw

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Avoiding collisions ?
« on: February 19, 2002, 02:15:39 AM »
I don't know what I'm doing wrong lately, but an awfull lot of my deaths are related to collisions. I had some before but this is starting to get embarassing, I'd say now I collide about 4-5 sorties every night. Be it front quarter shot, or comming down on the spiraling dude who tried following me in a rope.

At 1st, I thought it was me gettin too close for a shot (flying G10 mostly in MA lately), so I switched to .50 planes & set up my convergence a bit further away than I usualy did (went from 325 yds to 400 -> 500). Still didn't help, I'm still colliding a lot.

I wish I could put a finger on what I'm doing wrong, but I can't....HELP !  

PS: it IS humiliating when you get that dude to flipflop like a leave going down, you're filling him with a lot of lead comming down and ZAP, collide & he gets the Kill....:o
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline Naudet

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Avoiding collisions ?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2002, 04:44:35 AM »
Saintaw, i think you might still get in to close.

I often had the problem of collision when doing fast B&Z attacks. I simply forgot, that the at a closure rate of 50yrds/sec or more, you dont have much time to get away from ur tgt, once you get closer than 200 yrds.
And with increasing speed, the problems get worse, just think about an closure rate of 100+yrds/sec. In LW birds, that usually gives you 3 secs, to line up, aim, fire, and evade.

I now try to break up "in time" so i get away from my tgt before its to late.

Offline MANDOBLE

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Avoiding collisions ?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2002, 04:46:30 AM »
I have the exact same problem, and it is related to getting too close before shooting. Some of the crashes are also due Rop-a-dopes, specially with these spits that simply keep hung at 0 mph looking at u as you come down.

Offline MANDOBLE

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Avoiding collisions ?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2002, 04:49:18 AM »
I have the exact same problem, and it is related to getting too close before shooting. Some of the crashes are also due Rop-a-dopes, specially with these spits that simply keep hung forever at 0 mph looking at u as you come down.

Offline Lephturn

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Avoiding collisions ?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2002, 07:05:55 AM »
I went through a phase like that about a year ago, but honestly I have not collided with anyone in months.

Nine times out of ten I find if you collide with a guy, it's because you are shooting at him.  By pulling proper lead, you essentially steer a collision course.  The bottom line is that you have to break off and stop firing earlier.  Remember that because of net lag, he isn't going to avoid you in time... you need to avoid him.  What range you need to break depends on closure rate and your airspeed.  If you are either very slow or very fast, you won't be as maneuverable and you'll have to break earlier to avoid hitting him.  If closure is high (front quarter shots) you'll need to start avoiding much earlier.  In a head-on merge I'll generally go guns defensive at D1.5 or so, and if I'm not pointing away from his flight path at least slightly by D700 or so it can be tough to avoid.

In front quarter shots, it's simply a matter of timing... if you are going for the front quarter shot you need to take it a bit earlier and plan for a snapshot.  Don't try to pull to hold your guns on him longer, because you'll just fly into him.  For the rope-a-dope shots... well those can be tough because you just flopped over the top so you don't have much speed to maneuver.  Basically, don't rope-a-dope unless you have enough to make him stall out and flip over first.  It's much easier that way and you should have enough speed to maneuver.

What plane are you flying?  That will have some bearing on the situation.

Offline Saintaw

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Avoiding collisions ?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2002, 08:41:29 AM »
Rgr Lephturn, I started flying 109's the "old school way" (using only one 20mm gun), hence me getting closer & needing that extra time when shooting at the target.

Maybe I was firing from further before & didn't realise it.

I'll have a go at flying the 190-A8 this evening, this allows for further / faster shots ... might do the trick.

Thx again :)
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline Apar

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Avoiding collisions ?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2002, 08:47:31 AM »
My experience (mostly bases on flying 109 and 190 planes) is this:

If you do a rope-a-dope and end up with much less than 1k separation between you and your opponent at the point where you do your hammerhead or wingover, your dead 9/10 times. If you have enough distance you have enough time to turn, aim, shoot and break just because of the initial slow closing speed. I never collided in a rope-a-dope and I do them regularly (I did die because of poor E-state judgement, i.e. trying to rope-a dope against somebody I should not do it because of his E-state and good low speed stability and therefore stalling out way before he does)
Trying to rope-a-dope is a matter of good E-state judgement and knowing the low speed stability of your opponent. It also helps to have a faster accelerating plane than your opponent.

Collisions in frontal attacks.
I sometimes collide in a pure HO because I did break just too late. Problem is mainly due to effective shooting distance in most LW rides. To get a substantial amount of ammo in your opponent you need to be close even in a HO, but it is doable even without colliding. In a p47, f6f, f4u, P51, p38, you can open fire in a HO at 1.2-1k and get a good hit sprite. In a 190 or 109 shooting at 1k-800 stop shooting at 400 and break seems to do it most of the time. Although you get less ammo in him, if it happens to be 30mm, the effect of just a view bullets is devastating.
But I rather don't do a pure HO. I try to come in slightly of centre and slip the plane using rudder and ailerons to give me a frontal shot and fly by the target. Of course you're opponent will prolly still fly straight at you and you still need to break in time but it is easier to break being alrdy not lined up.
Most successful kills for me are the front quarter attacks (not HO's!!). You have to aim at a predicted hitting point rather than at the plane itself that is flying by you. If you would fly straight at that predicted hitting point you fly a line that gives the bullets a collision course with the enemy and not necessarily your plane! (bullets travel faster hence the collision course for the bullets is different than for the plane that shoots them) In fact 9/10 times you will pass the opponent in his rear quarter in a frontal attack (and that is good). That is if you don't turn with him while shooting at this predicted hitting point (you need to let him fly into your burst)

Collisions in rear quarter attacks.
For me most difficult attack is the high six B&Z. You have to lead shoot to get hits on the moving target which means you have to aim in front of him. Depending on closing speed, the target will in some cases not be visible (underneath you nose) which makes it hard to judge your aim correctly. It helps not coming straight down but either inverted or in a shallow curve shooting with one wing low. Again if you aim at a predicted hitting point you should pass the target in his low rear quarter.

Collisions in high closing speed dead six attacks.
In this case you need to break after shooting to avoid collision. Breaking at about 300-400 seems to work in most cases.

When I collide it is mostly in HO attacks so I try to avoid them ( lier lier cough>)

Saw, I've been there too, endless practising on the offline targets really helped. The reason for colliding was mainly due to poor aiming and the inherent course corrections trying to still get hits into him. If you still have to make course corrections at 500 yrd or less distance, it's too late, it then is likely you will collide.

If you rather practice on life target, gimmy a shout, I'm happy to fly drone for you m8. :)



Apar
« Last Edit: February 19, 2002, 09:14:03 AM by Apar »