Author Topic: American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists  (Read 847 times)

Offline miko2d

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2002, 12:35:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Goth
We the People of the United States...

Doesn't look like it was established for terrorists.


 So our domestic terrorists do qualify. Also have to be carefull with those for another reason - never know which one turns into another George Washington... ;)

 miko

Offline Goth

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2002, 01:11:54 PM »
Ok miko, so I should have inserted the word foreign before terrorist. So sue me....but I'll just get one of those bleeding heart liberal lawyers to confuse you with your own twisted logic.

Offline Eagler

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2002, 01:18:36 PM »
blindfold and a cig .. thats fair enough for me :)
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Offline Sandman

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2002, 02:02:23 PM »
Fortunately, the barbaric habit of lynching has passed out of fashion.
sand

Offline midnight Target

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2002, 02:14:08 PM »
Quote
Military tribunals proposed by the administration to try foreign nationals accused of terrorism should offer the same rights guaranteed Americans – namely that defendants are presumed innocent and must be proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.


Sounds like the ABA isn't opposed to tribunals. They just want to ensure the process is within the bounds of our law.

And IF Bin Laden had the complete lack of brains to hire an attorney, his funds would be immediately impounded, seized and traced.

Offline Gunthr

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2002, 02:32:15 PM »
"And IF Bin Laden had the complete lack of brains to hire an attorney, his funds would be immediately impounded, seized and traced."

Not if his attorney had anything to say about it. :)

Personally, I think the ABA is looking at how long the prosecution of terrorists will go on... and it will go on for quite some time. The representation of terrorists can add up to a huge amount of money. They don't want to be cut out of the process. They want to work their way in. They want the terrorists to be afforded the representation of the American lawyer of their choice.  I hope I don't sound over-cynical here. This is what I truly believe.


From CNN:

"In comparing a military tribunal to a court-martial or civilian court:

-- A federal trial is generally open to the public, while a military tribunal may be closed. Advocates of the tribunal process say such a setting denies a public forum to the accused

-- A tribunal may be held in a different country, in a territory such as Guam or even on a U.S. naval ship.

-- Greater security can be imposed over what information is disclosed in a military tribunal as compared with a federal prosecution.

-- Like a court-martial, a military tribunal will be composed of military members, ostensibly only officer members and usually no fewer than five, the minimum number that can sit for a general court-martial.

-- Unlike a federal prosecution, a person tried by a military tribunal does not have the right to a jury trial.

-- A tribunal's finding of guilt or imposition of the death penalty does not have to be unanimous. In the case of a five-member panel, four of the members could vote guilty and impose the death penalty.

-- A death penalty may be imposed immediately."



       
 
   
 

 

« Last Edit: February 07, 2002, 03:04:52 PM by Gunthr »
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Offline mrfish

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2002, 03:46:16 PM »
this al quaida!!!!!?????



honestly, al is a sweet guy and a real stand up friend. i don't know what all this talk is about but you got the wrong guy.

how ya doin.

Offline miko2d

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2002, 03:51:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Goth
Ok miko, so I should have inserted the word foreign before terrorist. So sue me....but I'll just get one of those bleeding heart liberal lawyers to confuse you with your own twisted logic.


 If anyone's logic is twisted it's yours. I agreed with you and even clarified a point for the audience which you have admitted you "should have inserted" yourself.
 And you threaten to sick a liberal lawyer on me... :confused:

miko

Offline Goth

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2002, 05:38:39 PM »
erg...you must excuse me, work was getting to me and I was tired and dazed and confused and disoriented and and....but I'm all better now. Went back to re-read what you wrote miko and the dogs errr lawyers have been called off....nasty bunch that they are almost took my arm off they did.

Offline straffo

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2002, 03:34:40 AM »
I don't get it :confused: :confused:
How do you expect the other country to react if you have a law for your citizen and another for foreigner ?

What will you say if a country behave like that with Us Citizen ?

The fact it apply to Terrorists is not in question here IMO.

What will forbid you to put something like a yelow star on foreigners ?

Offline Gunthr

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2002, 04:54:28 AM »
I'm not an expert on military tribunals Straffo, but my understanding is this:

First of all, there is no question that the American President has the authority to use military tribunals. Congress authorized its use in certain situations long ago. There are precedents. For example, the Nurehmburg Trials (Adolf Eichmann, et al) were actually military tribunals.

The United Nations has no problem with tribunals. Their only requirement is that they be "fundementally fair."

The rationale behind this seperate form of "due process" is the acknowledgement that there are extraordinary circumstances that require a more summary form of judgement.

Some of the practical concerns before us now are security and  protection of sensitive intelligence when dealing with terrorists.

It is true that the USA will not subject a US citizen to a military tribunal. This was made law long ago. However, I don't think that this is unique in the world. I'll bet that every country gives certain advantages to its own citizens that they do not extend to "foreigners". Is it fair? I don't know.

Did you know that Frenchmen were recently outlawed? Thats right, it is now against the law to be a French guy. The USA would like you, the great provider of obvious solutions, to be the first to participate in our Military Tribunal  :p




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« Last Edit: February 08, 2002, 05:00:59 AM by Gunthr »
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Offline Sandman

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2002, 10:18:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I don't get it :confused: :confused:
How do you expect the other country to react if you have a law for your citizen and another for foreigner ?

What will you say if a country behave like that with Us Citizen ?

The fact it apply to Terrorists is not in question here IMO.

What will forbid you to put something like a yelow star on foreigners ?


Nothing new here. The U.S. has little interest in participating in an International Criminal Court  where everyone abides by the same set of rules.

Do as we say , damnit, not as we do. Funny what you can get away with when you have the biggest stick on the planet.
sand

Offline CavemanJ

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2002, 11:32:20 AM »
Do ya really think these guys could get a fair trial in a civil court, as opposed to a tribunal?

Joe American gets called for jury duty, he answers the questions asked by both sides and is deemed acceptable, so he's selected.  Meanwhile Joe here has already decided that the "alleged terrorists" are already guilty.

Offline straffo

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2002, 12:28:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr

Did you know that Frenchmen were recently outlawed? Thats right, it is now against the law to be a French guy. The USA would like you, the great provider of obvious solutions, to be the first to participate in our Military Tribunal  :p
.


I know about the 2/3 frenchman involved I've trouble recognise them as French :( (as you have with your US taliban ...)

I just hope that they (as the other) will have a fair judgement (*)

(*) the fact that I hope they will be senteced to death as nothing to do with the fairness or not if the judgement :)

If the judgement is fair it's far than enought for me .That the only thing I want the outcome is another matter I don't want them to have another start for their lowly life.

Did I make my point clearer ?

Offline Gunthr

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American Bar Assoc wants to represent terrorists
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2002, 04:02:04 PM »
Yes, I understand your point. I also hope that any judgement against individuals is fair and just.

I didnt know that any Frenchman was involved with Taliban... but I understand that eventually most Taliban are going to be freed.

Terrorists = those who  surreptitiously carry out war against innocent civilians to strike terror for political goals...

:)  Gunthr
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century