Author Topic: Fighting In The Vertical Plane  (Read 650 times)

Offline Durr

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Fighting In The Vertical Plane
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2002, 09:56:13 PM »
So this is Octavius!

« Last Edit: February 12, 2002, 11:28:06 PM by Durr »

Offline Octavius

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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2002, 10:06:12 PM »
ROFL!   and who's his rio enjoying the view??
octavius
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Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2002, 10:19:59 PM »
ROFLMAO!!!!..:D
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Offline Hristo

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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2002, 10:32:48 PM »
Will Todd/DMF/Leviathn ever stop whining about boredom ?! :confused:

It gets boring quickly ;)

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2002, 10:40:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hristo
Will Todd/DMF/Leviathn ever stop whining about boredom ?!
[/B]

If you'll read carefully, it was Fariz himself who admitted that Khan's flying style was "boring."  I was merely agreeing with him, and I even made the conditional statement that it was boring "at least for me."  Your own mileage may vary.

I really don't understand why you're trying to make an issue out of what I consider to be boring.  I've routinely stated that I support the right of every player to fly as he or she deems fit.  It's certainly not my place to tell them how to enjoy themselves, but by the same token I know how I enjoy myself.  And it sure doesn't consist of flying conservatively to preserve my K/D ratio.

The real question is whether or not you'll ever stop whining about my stating my own personal preferences over what I consider to be boring.  So far I'm not encouraged by what I've seen.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline fats

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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2002, 10:53:20 PM »
the most boring thing is when there's chance of a 1on1 with someone you think might be able to kill you and he runs away.


// fats
p.s. mid-air vulches really aren't kills, though majority of kills anyone gets are just those.

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2002, 02:50:50 AM »
No one except Khan can say whether he was bored flying that way or not. I'm also for the K/T factor, but, obviously, not in a Spit. It is like going for only K/D flying only Me262.

Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2002, 03:11:18 AM »
I'm having VERY fun when I B&Z, it gets so much better when the spit pilot starts whining about me not turning with him, then he gets bored, the he dies :D
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2002, 03:14:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
No one except Khan can say whether he was bored flying that way or not. I'm also for the K/T factor, but, obviously, not in a Spit. It is like going for only K/D flying only Me262.


You were fine until your second sentence.  "Obviously" not in a Spit?  There's absolutely nothing obvious about why you would discredit this statistic for a Spit other than misplaced and/or uninformed bias.  As Khan shows, you can't assume anything about how players fly particular planes, or are you suggesting that he was exceptionally bad for flying a Spit and producing such a piss-poor K/T?

In any event, all statistics should be taken with a grain of salt... not because of what people fly, but how they fly it.  Flying very conservatively produces a high K/D, generally low K/S, and quite low K/T.  Vulching, however, produces high K/D, high K/S, high K/T, and even a high hit percentage.  Someone who vulches at every opportunity does not necessarily possess greater skills than someone who, consistently outnumbered, produces lower numbers.  There is, unfortunately, no true objective measure of skill in AH, or at least not one that can't be "cooked" through particular flying styles or techniques that have little to do with skill.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2002, 04:11:07 AM »
My second statement is based in the plane type, not in the pilot.

Where is the interest into having a 400/0 K/D ratio flying 262?

Where is the interest into having a 0.0050 K/T ratio flying spit?

Pick up any spit pilot, put him into a P47 and give him so drugs to increase his agressiveness, after a tour, check his K/T.

K/T and H/P and 50% dependent on the plane type while K/D and K/S are 100% dependent on the pilot style.

So, I'm not suggesting that he was exceptionally bad in the spit due low K/T, in fact I have no idea about his K/T. He has his flying style and it seems he was good with it.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2002, 04:13:18 AM by MANDOBLE »

Offline Xjazz

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« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2002, 04:40:58 AM »
Hi Wilbus!

As fun as my Spit9 in B&Z style against lower 190:

Hi higher Spit! Try new Turn&Run tactics, ok?

Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
I'm having VERY fun when I B&Z, it gets so much better when the spit pilot starts whining about me not turning with him, then he gets bored, the he dies :D

Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2002, 06:11:02 AM »
to run from a Hi spit when in a 190 is pretty smart considering the spit does everything better then except for level speed :)

Sissyfires, that's what they are, pink interior, belive me! I'VE SEEN IT!! :D
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Xjazz

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« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2002, 06:26:26 AM »
Pink, heh? Soon ALL colors will spinning in your eyes while
you go down in flaming 190!

We will  meet in ropering  soon...

 :D

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2002, 12:22:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE
My second statement is based in the plane type, not in the pilot.
[/B]  

No, part of your second statement is based on plane type.  The other part derives from an inappropriate generalization.

Quote
Where is the interest into having a 400/0 K/D ratio flying 262?
[/B]

Flown conservatively, the 262 becomes completely untouchable by anything in the arena including other 262s.  It packs more punch, more speed, better zoom, etc. than anything else in AH.  So yes, you're right that a massive K/D ratio in a 262 shouldn't come as any surprise.

Quote
Where is the interest into having a 0.0050 K/T ratio flying spit?
[/B]

This statement, however, does not compare to the former.  The Spit may be a good furball plane, but it's ridiculous to assume that Spits alone allow for high K/T.  Zekes turn better, N1ks and Ki-61s compare favorably in all respects, 205s are faster, 262s and Yak-9Ts have better guns, etc.  Explain to me exactly how a Spit becomes "untouchable" in K/T in the same way a 262 becomes "untouchable" for K/D.  You just can't compare.

In addition, the numbers simply don't bear out your generalization of the simplicity of flying a Spit and acruing a high K/T.  I looked up the K/T for four players I would consider hot sticks in the Spit IX/V, and their K/T ranged from 0.0025 to 0.0031.  Only one of them matched your own K/T, MANDOBLE, and yet they flew the Amazing Collosal Spit of Fast Killing +5.

Quote
Pick up any spit pilot, put him into a P47 and give him so drugs to increase his agressiveness, after a tour, check his K/T.
[/B]

So now you're suggesting that someone who grabs a P-47 and flies it into furballs as if it were a Spit would suffer a decrease in K/T?  Duh.  OTOH, stick an aggressive, good player into a P-47 and he or she will fly to the strengths of the P-47 even in a furball environment.  I expect K/T would go down initially and then go back up again as the player became more comfortable with the new ride.

Quote
K/T and H/P and 50% dependent on the plane type while K/D and K/S are 100% dependent on the pilot style.
[/B]

I don't think there's a formula to this which is as easy as you're trying to make it.  Like I've said, all stats should be taken with a grain of salt because it's easy to manipulate them by flying in certain ways.

Quote
So, I'm not suggesting that he was exceptionally bad in the spit due low K/T, in fact I have no idea about his K/T. He has his flying style and it seems he was good with it.


But you've suggested that a K/T of 0.0050 (LOL... do you realize how incredibly hard it would be to achieve that in any plane?) should be par for the course for Spits, so anything under that we'll consider a disappointment.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2002, 01:53:01 PM »
What Im suggesting is that some planes need more time to setup a decent attack while having survival chances in a outnumbered environment, others need less time.

About your list of planes "beating" the spit, the only ones that have remote chances of being as favorable as spit for K/T are Ki and N1KJ. Zeke is a stone at hi and medium speeds and a poor diver while the Spit is very good at any speed and probably the best diver. Ki is slower and worse climber, N1K2 may be on par with spit at low level, but at medium and hi alts is frankly much worse than spit. Add two hispanos to the cocktail and the result is the plane with much better chances of getting more kills per hour played than anyother in the hangar.