So I want Terrible Frank (Ki-84).

[Tac]

IMO, htc should really consider what gameplay impact a plane will have before introducing it. Spit14 (if its true its coming next)... there's already a fuggin crapload of spit population (and 4 spit models IN game now), god knows what they will do with a far superior spit model. Ki84? Sigh, itd become the spit and n1k packaged into one.

"There is always a certain tendency in fighters, a sort of a 'golden rule' that if a plane is slow, it turns good, and if a plane turns bad, it is at least fast(generally that is)."

Imo that should be the golden rule for balancing planeset in any game.  

I'd much rather have a P-40, P-39, Pe2, Ki-102,Ki-46 or more italian aircraft (and why not, some checz or rumanian rides) than to keep getting more powerplane rides.

[Karnak]

Tac,

How abouts they take out the P-38L and replace it with a P-38D and P-38F.

That'd make you happy.  It gets rid of an easy to use, high population aircraft and replaces it with older models that are out of place in the current planeset.

The Spit XIV will be perked (evidence: its icon says "Spit14", not "Spit"), but for the CT and scenarios there will now be an actuall 1944 Spitfire instead of just the 1942 Spitfire that we Spit fans have been soldiering on with.

The Ki-84 will probably need to be a cheap perk, but even a cheap perk price will control it.  Just look at the F4U-1C.  The Japanese built 3,500.  That is an awful lot for them, their highest production fighter, the A6M, just pushed past the 11,000 mark, IIRC.  The Ki-84 has an honest place in AH, maybe perked, but it has a place.

[Tac]

Considering AH 38 is barely a slow J model for all purposes, I wouldnt mind karnak. Heck, that may even get rid of one of the mismodeling issues (D-F had no dive flaps.. sort of like now anyways) the easy way. As long as you put more than 1 model in

ki84 perked? Somehow I doubt it. SPit14 perked? who cares, SpitIX is more than capable of fighting late 1945 planes. Personally, im just fed up with powerplanes all over.

[Sikboy]

this is essentially a repost of something I wrote about the Mig3, but I changed it to address the Ki-84

Everyone has thier own rational for how to advance the plane set. Some Choose National Balance (Build the Itlalian Airforce up) Others choose historical numbers/Role (Build the P-40e) Others choose MA utility (Build the Ki-84) Others Choose Scenario/CT Utility (Build the Mig-3) I think its best to try and find the plane that best fits as many of the above criteria as possible (and any other criteria that might might be suggested). For example:
1. the Ki-84 Helps National Balance, giving Japan another Fighter.
2. The Ki-84 was important in the Pacific, as it was one of the few Japanese Planes that could keep up with contemperary US planes.
3. The Ki-84, as many have mentioned might be TOO utilized in the MA. I think that this is a valid consideration, if we are to assume that this plane will be so good/heavily used that it will be perked.
4. The Ki-84 would help add balance to late war scenarios in the pac. The plane set as it stands foces any pac scenario/TOD to take place in the late war era. Adding the Ki-84 would help us out, by giving the Japanese another plane, and allowing for greater use of the perked Hogs, while keeping the odds close.

Anyhow, that's how I see it.

-Sikboy

[J_A_B]

The Ki-84 doesn't scare me.   I can't see any reason that it'd have to be perked.  In fact it should fit in pretty well with the existing planeset.

Speed?  Fast but not fastest, about equal to the FW-190A-8 at most altitudes.

Turning ability?  Probably on par with the F6F and Spt9 (fuel/ammo load would make the difference here).  

Climb would be good but not great.  It's no 109.  

Sure it'd have effective guns, but like the Ki-61 and Spitfire it had only a small amount of cannon ammo.  It's no C-hog in this regard.  The Spit would still have the better gun package of the two although the Frank carried more MG ammo.

Performance would badly drop off at altitude, not unlike the FW-190A8, Typhoon, and LA7.  

Compared to the Spit 14, the Ki-84 wouldn't be as fast, wouldn't climb as well, wouldn't dive as well, and wouldn't perform anywhere near as well over 15K.

The Japanese need a decent Army fighter that can compete on equal footing with the rest of the arena; the Frank is about the only real choice they have.

J_A_B

[Vermillion]

Considering AH 38 is barely a slow J model for all purposes

*cough* roadkill! *cough*

Where do these "urban legends" start in AH, and why do they get constantly propagated thru the community, with no basis what so ever in fact ???

Please, provide one single scrap of evidence that shows that the P-38L in Aces High is too slow.

This is something like the 5th  time I've heard this crap in the past couple of days on this BBS, but not a single person will back it up. Its like there's a little circle of P38 fanatics sitting around and one of them mumbles under his breath that the P-38 in AH is too slow.   Then all of the sudden the rest take this as gospel, and spout it out continuously as fact on the BBS.

*takes a deep breath*

Ok sorry.

I over reacted, but please show the rest of the ignorant world how the P-38L in Aces High is too slow.

[Jack55]

Was there much performance difference besides range and boosted flaps between P-38 models?  They all seemed close.  Didn't the very first one go over 400 mph?

[Tac]

Verm, read again. I said the AH 38 (aka, L) is a slow J for all purposes. The 38J was faster than the L. The J had no dive flaps (except the last batch which had them).

And there has not been any argument about the 38's speed that im aware of.

Now kindly return to the issue on topic, the Frankenweiner- 84

[Vermillion]

Ah... sorry

I guess I'm a little sensitive because BigCrate keeps complaining that the P-38L is too slow.  And its getting excessively old.

But I still disagree with what you said.  

If its a late block P-38J its performance will be the same as the P-38L, because as you know its essentially the same plane.  

If its the early P-38J, it may be slightly faster (I would have to check the data I have) but then it wouldn't have dive brakes and boosted ailerons, which would be considerably different in combat.

And to get back on topic YES! I want the Ki84 as well !!!

[Raubvogel]

I'd love to see the Ki84 added. IJA needs a good late war plane. Some other late war Japanese planes I'd like to see: Ki100, J2M

[fdiron]

KI84 would definately need to be perked.  Probably about 25 perks.

[J_A_B]

Actually even the late P-38J's were likely a bit faster than the P-38L because they didn't have the draggy "christmas tree" rocket racks.    Most P-38 drivers would probably much prefer the P-38J with 5-10 MPH faster speed and 4 less rockets.


Perk the Ki-84?   Only if it's modeled with American fuel      Modeled properly (with Japanese gas) it'll fit right in with our current unperked fighters.   Since the N1K2 is modeled with Japanese gas, I've no reason to think the Ki-84 won't be similarly done.  

J_A_B

[Citabria]

ki84 would be great addition.

[Mitsu]

I want to play the historical duel with you, cit.

[oboe]

Is there anything we can do to help get this aircraft modelled in AH?