Author Topic: Anyone see Arafat on 60 Minutes last night? (Read 639 times)

mrfish · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:09:45 AM »

well let's see:

-u.s. is attacked by foreigners who infiltrated the country motivated by religious fervor....in short a soveriegn state chipped away by foreign interests

-israel tries with help from its big bully brothers to create a state where a bunch of people live and those people spend 50 yrs pathetically fighting back to regain control of their former homeland......so occupied people fighting back

nope dont see it - perhaps you could get out your crayons and draw me chart?

i guess if i shut off half my brain i can see it from your (and the great bleating masses) perspective - there are, after all, both bombs AND arabs involved in both scenarios.

is that the little similarity you eluded to?

Fishu · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2002, 01:05:18 AM »

Mrfish,

First drop bombs, then wonder why they're doing suicide attacks and then drop more bombs and wondering again how they are making suicide attacks.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2002, 01:10:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
First drop bombs, then wonder why they're doing suicide attacks and then drop more bombs and wondering again how they are making suicide attacks.

First do suicide attacks, then wonder why they're dropping bombs, and then do some more suicide attacks and wonder yet again why they're dropping bombs.

It's a chicken and egg thing, and in any event, the attitudes of both sides lead to a perpetual cycle of violence. It's clear to me that bombing Palestinians is no more a solution to the Palestinian issue than strapping plastic explosives to yourself and suicide bombing a mall full of innocent teenagers.

-- Todd/Leviathn

babek- · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2002, 03:44:18 AM »

Chicken and egg ?

The land of the palestinians has been stolen by a decision of some colonial-like foreigners.

And now the intruders even march in the few territories and ghettos where the palestinians live and behave like the SS-troops in the occupied territories during WW2.

So its not surprising that the desperate palestinians are finally willing to sacrifice themself by putting on suicide bombs.

This fighting will go on - on both sides. As I mentioned before, the more important thing is the change of mind considering these actions. The Israelis are no more innocent people (they never have been) - at least in the european press - now their government with their terroristic actions is more and more often openly compared with the Nazi terror-regime.

So just wait until the people think about these new facts.

Fishu · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2002, 06:28:37 AM »

deadmanflying,

Yes, exactly that... not that, but your mentality with the issue.

Do you expect them to be different from you?
as in just giving up and saying "yes, our country mens killed your country mens without a reason and we're very sorry. bring your army and mow 'em down"

You surely wouldn't do that in either person, would you?

If someone drops bomb on my home, killing my dearest family members, I would be pretty pissed off and I'd be pretty pissed off, very likely blindfolded by the hatred.

If some terrorist would blow up himself on the streets and killing my family members and wounding me, I'd be also very pissed off and once again very likely blindfolded by the hatred.

If terrorists would blow up bombs and kill my country mens, I would be pretty willing to snap their heads off.

If enemy army would be dropping bombs on me and pushing me into the corner, I could loose hope for the future and make desperate attack on my enemy - which can well be called suicide attack.

Let's remember that many of these people doesn't have reliable news sources and their culture is whole different than yours.
To them, yours is different and they will think your news are biased and doesn't tell the whole truth.

Besides, whats the whole truth?
Many western news stations/magazines surely doesn't represent neutral side, neither ones in the middle east.

Are we, in the west and east, under some degree of propaganda of our own?
Could it effect in our ways of thinking the issue?
if not, how could you know it?
There are palestinians, who disagrees with acts of terrorists and there are westerners who disagrees with their goverment.

Afterall, how different can we really be?

just food for the thought.

-lynx- · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2002, 07:58:34 AM »

Quote

The land of the palestinians has been stolen by a decision of some colonial-like foreigners.

Jeepers, did they stop teaching history in Germany or something?

As for chicken-egg thing - last time I heard every single move to peaceful solution by Israel (pulling troops out from occupied territories etc) was blown up by yet another muslim moron wanting to get to "heaven" via a back door of martyrdom. What do you want them to do? Turn another cheek? They'd been doing it for some 2000-4000 years until 60 years ago. Now they have a developed industrial country with probably the most combat ready army in the world and they're prepared to defend what they've built. Palestine in the same period built nothing. Zilch. Nada. Their "neighbours" - all those Arab states made them feel "welcome" several times and every single time Israel fought the attacks back with vengeance. And you expect them to be peaceful and friendly? How about making some friendly gestures first?

Mindless liberals will vote Hitler back into power one day:(

Curval · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2002, 08:19:54 AM »

"Mmm considering that statement, I bet that if there are 200 willing to risk who knows what by signing it, there must be a few thousands thinking the same but not brave enough to say it openly."

I'm not picking on you man, but the above is so full of assumptions that it is valueless. "I bet", and "there must be a few thousands" are opinion based and not factual.

"6 months ago, any commentary showing Israel as less than honorable in its intentions and actions would have produced an incredible flamefest.. "

This highlights my feelings on the subject. 6 months ago all the journalists and editors felt the same way...and that is what they reported. Now they report items that make news..."the underdog" stories...the poor Palestineans struggling for their freedom while being squashed by "imperialist" Israel.

What amazes me are the Reuters and A/P photographs we all see of gunmen with AKs shooting at Israeli soldiers...then the story attached relates how the Israelis have killed a bunch of civilians. What I want to know is "who took the damn picture?!" and why isn't a bullet on route?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2002, 08:28:04 AM »

I bet the post WW2 German school system is designed to hate and distrust the "strong" and lavish praise and sypmathy on the "weak". Israel is very strong.

miko2d · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2002, 01:24:09 PM »

Why the heck would anyone expect Israel to be honorable? It's a working democracy, for Christ's sake - same as ours or Germany's in 1933, only with a dozen parties instead of two.

miko

koala · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2002, 09:26:15 PM »

It's very simple, and to me obvious. Apparently it isn't to many others.

1. There are many Arabs in the Middle East who are never going to be happy with any kind of Israeli nation in their part of the world. They are willing to kill themselves, and many Israelis along with them, in order to keep the struggle alive. A Palestinian state will not change this. It's just the most convient rallying point for now. Do you think Osama gives a damn about the Palestinians? Wake up.

2. As long as there are terrorists blowing up its citizens, Israel will always retaliate.

3. Neither the Israelis nor the Arabs are going to just disappear. Not unless something really big (and horrible) happens.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

straffo · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2002, 03:29:00 AM »

Nuke all middle-east ... but preserve oil ...