Questions for Pyro and any 190A-8 expert

[Wilbus]

Funked, where can I find the 190 manual? PLEASE....

Ram, where did you get the chart? I NEED THESE THINGS!

I think the R8 was the one used most though, having both 20mm and 30mm, and some of them had 13mm, heavy armor. Will need to get more books about my favorite airplane.

[Vermillion]

Wilbus, my understanding is that originally Gatt found the manual in Italy I believe (english version) and sent it too Funked.  Funked sent me a copy, and I made a copy for R4M just to shut him up on how a 190's electrical arming system worked  

Mandoble I'll try to scan those pages in the next few days and post them. I use to have them all scanned and stored on my website, but my hosting company had a meltdown and lost all my stuff, so I have to go back and re-scan it all.

What do you want too see? The speed/climb charts for the standard A8 and the A8/R2 (the only other performance chart is for the A8 with GM1) ?  At least with those, you can tell if the 30mm equipped A8 is the A8/R8 or the A8/R2.

Oh and Wilbus, I have a ton of stuff on 190's (like the page that R4M posted) on my hard drive at home, if your interested.  But its gonna take a huge amount of storage and broadband to get it all too you.

Edit: Mandoble, the total weight difference betwen a A8 and a A8/R8 may have been 800lbs (I haven't checked that fact), but the chart I have says that the actual armor/protection system difference is 234 lbs.  There may have been other things that weighed more that were added. But the actual armor difference was  234lbs  (at least according to the chart, I'll try to scan and post it as well).

[Wilbus]

Verm, I am VERY interestead, if you have time to send them, PLEASE DO!!

I have all the time in the world my self when it comes to the 190

If you happen to find time, the e-mail is "rasmus@avita.se"

[funkedup]

Thanks RAM, 4000 kg makes sense.  It's quite close to weights I have for A-3 and A-4.

Looks like at least one of my contradictory statements was correct!  

The 1100 lb difference is not real, it's only in AH. I don't think standard A-8 was more than 700-800 lb heavier than an A-5.

So it's more like 800 lb difference.

800 lb of what?  I dunno, ask Kurt Tank!  Seriously, I think it is the new wing structure, the weight of the fuselage fuel, the fuel tank, and the tank's support structure, the extra weight of outboard MG 151/20 and ammo, weight of MG 131 and ammo and strengthened support structure, upgraded avionics, etc.  Maybe there were some changes in the standard armor thickness too.

[HoHun]

Hi Funked,

>Thanks RAM, 4000 kg makes sense. It's quite close to weights I have for A-3 and A-4.

Could you post some absolute weights here? This kind of data seems to be hard to find for most Focke-Wulf versions.

>The 1100 lb difference is not real, it's only in AH. I don't think standard A-8 was more than 700-800 lb heavier than an A-5.

I think the difference mainly was due to equipment and the weight of the additional fuel.

According to Geust's "Under the Red Star" the Russians captured a Fw 190A-8 (W.-Nr. 580967) configured as interceptor (no outer wing cannon, no rear fuselage tank, no bomb racks) which weighed in at 3986 kg.

By comparison, the standard Fw 190A-8 is listed by Focke-Wulf at 4300 kg without ETC501 bomb rack. 150 kg of the difference is from the wing guns, about 90 kg from the fuel. The remaining 74 kg difference probably can be (at least partly) attributed to the the tank and the fuel lines.

The detailed weight breakdown of the armour shows that the standard Fw 190A-8 had 137.8 kg of armour, while the A-8/R8 had 248.8 kg. Of the 111 kg increase, 27.5 kg could be attributed to a greater thickness of oil tank and cooler armour, 46.5 kg to the canopy protection, 28 kg to additional and strenghtened plates for pilot protection and 9 kg to the armour for the MK108 ammunition.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[MANDOBLE]

Definitively, it is a hell to find out what a 190A8 really was.
As an example, most late manufactured A8 were without extra fuel tank while most of the first ones had it. In the other hand, most of the first ones had no ETC while most of the late ones had it. Some sources said only R4 kit included GM1, while others said that was an standar for ALL 190A8 to make them able to deal with the usual 25k buff raids. Only some of the R7 equipped had additional "armoured" canopy glass, while most of the photographed R2 were, in fact, R8s. Also, a lot of late war fotographed 190F8 and A8 where in fact 190A9.
THIS IS CRAZY!!!

In any case, I, personaly, want the BT700 torpedo bomb available for 190A8 (U11) and 190F8(U2), and the LT950 torpedo for the 190F8 also (U14).

[funkedup]

Hohun thanks,
I don't have the exact weight because they are in a book that is in some boxes in storage right now.  It shows weight breakdowns for several Fw 190 versions.  IIRC A-2 is around 8600 lb, going up to about 8800 lb for A-4, then about 9500 lb for A-8.

You might have a copy, and if you don't have it you should get one.  
The book is "Kurt Tank, Focke-Wulf's Designer and Test Pilot" by Wolfgang Wagner, ISBN 0764306448.  I have the English version and the original is in German, "Kurt Tank - Konstrukteur und Testpilot bei Focke Wulf' ISBN 3763761020.

Mandoble:  
Yes it is crazy!  They were building them in many plants under difficult conditions, and the production variations are quite large.  I have pretty much given up on trying to understand them all.  Maybe if I learn to read German someday.  

[Nath[BDP]]

Just ask, funked:

From the book funked mentioned:

Weights (pg. 106)

Fw 190A-3 (BMW 801D2) 8.Takeoff and emergency power blocked; figures are therefore as the A-2 with emergency boost.

Weight, empty.... 2845 kg
Fuel..................... 396 kg
Oil....................... 40 kg
Crew................... 80 kg
Load.................... 634 kg 9. A3 payload (2 MG 17, 850 rounds 86 kg. 2 MG 151, 250 rounds 134 kg. Other loads 414 kg) Total 634 kg.
Max permissible load.. 1150 kg
Take off weight........... 3995 kg

Fw 190A-5/U8 (BMW 801D2)

Weight, empty..... 2950 kg
Fuel..................... 820 kg 10 Normal fuel load was 396 kg + 2x 295 liters drop tanks = 590 liters (424 kg), totaling 1140 liters or 820kg carried)
Oil........................ 40 kg
Crew.................... 80 kg
Load.................... 470 kg11 Payload: Armament 220 kg, Ext. ordnance 250 kg. Total: 470 kg)
Max permissible load.. 1410 kg
Take off weight.... 4360 kg