Author Topic: French Disconnection  (Read 476 times)

Offline Habu

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French Disconnection
« on: March 17, 2003, 01:43:29 PM »
Read this on MSNBC. Now that the war is all but certain to occur in the next 2 weeks, it is interesting to think of the aftermath of the diplomatic events of the past couple months, particularly with regards to  Chirac and France.

I think that the current US administration are very much smarting over what happened in Europe. This war is not for US interests but world interests and the actions of France and Germany have probably prevented a peaceful resolution by giving Saddam encouragement to continue to defy the UN resolutions. This war is not the end of the greater war against terrorism, and the US is going to be thinking about ways to reward those that are supporting it in its efforts and also ways to show the world that not supporting it also has consequences.

       
       As I write this, onboard an airplane somewhere over Texas, the latest news makes war seem very likely, perhaps by the time you read this post. Of course, we’ve seen enough false starts and apparent deadlines vanish that such predictions may deserve a grain of salt, or maybe several.
       
       But let’s assume that war is coming, and that the United States will win. Neither, of course, is certain — nothing is in war, or diplomacy — but both seem likely. It’s worth thinking about what Jacques Chirac has accomplished with his anti-American diplomatic offensive, which even France’s foreign minister is said to have called the equivalent of shooting the United States in the back. I think the answer is “nothing good for France.”
       
       It seems pretty clear what Chirac wants: a decline in American influence around the world, and particularly in and around Europe. (Chirac is even said, in terms unattractively redolent of Milosevic, to favor a kind of “cultural cleansing” to eliminate American intellectual and aesthetic influences.)
       
       So will he get what he wants? Likely, the reverse. Had France kept its promises of the fall, and not tried to impede an American invasion, it would likely have retained a good deal of influence in Iraq. The Bush Administration would probably have wanted to encourage French involvement, in order to avoid the appearance of American imperialism and unilateralism. Given France’s historical ties to the region, and demands on American attention elsewhere, France might have wound up with more power in the world than it possessed before.
       
       Now, however, France is likely to face being shut out of the region after an American victory. The Bush Administration will want to send the signal that crossing America is expensive, which will mean that France will not be invited in, and other Arab nations will quickly get the message that French connections are disfavored. And with large numbers of troops in Iraq, and de facto control of Iraqi oil production, the United States will have the power to make that sort of thing stick.
       
       The United States will also do its best to cause trouble for the French in Europe, a place where Chirac’s arrogance has already made him enemies. Having learned the lessons of the winter — don’t participate in multilateral arrangements that include France — the United States will likely seek to create and strengthen alternative organizations to the U.N. and the E.U., and to keep the French out of a position of importance in NATO. And, one hopes, the United States may undertake diplomatic efforts to separate France from its quasi-colonies in Africa. And, again, a victorious United States will have the clout to accomplish a lot along these lines.
       
       The likely result is a France more marginalized than ever. This probably won’t make the French any more pleasant or cooperative of course. But it won’t matter. And, quite possibly, neither will France.

Offline ra

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French Disconnection
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2003, 01:46:55 PM »
Quote
This war is not for US interests but world interests ...

This war had better be for US interests.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2003, 02:07:07 PM »
france and germany are trying for a last ditch resolution to save their puppet saddam. .....too little-too late

Offline Habu

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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2003, 02:54:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
This war had better be for US interests.


US interests and world interests are not mutially exclusive.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2003, 03:03:30 PM »
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Originally posted by john9001
france and germany are trying for a last ditch resolution to save their puppet saddam. .....too little-too late



Bush's post-war plans include private US companies, exclude UN (WTFG BUSH!)[/b]

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2003, 03:06:00 PM »
We have a huge budget deficit and a struggling economy, and he wants to pump billions into Iraq.  I hate pork barrel but we could sure use some of it HERE instead of over there.

I am glad to see the big middle finger flying towards the UN though.  Imbeciles.

Offline Rude

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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2003, 03:12:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
We have a huge budget deficit and a struggling economy, and he wants to pump billions into Iraq.  I hate pork barrel but we could sure use some of it HERE instead of over there.

I am glad to see the big middle finger flying towards the UN though.  Imbeciles.


Seen the markets worldwide today funked? It really has less to do with a sick economy than it does with indecision in combination with 9-11.

Offline Rasker

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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2003, 03:41:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
We have a huge budget deficit and a struggling economy, and he wants to pump billions into Iraq.  I hate pork barrel but we could sure use some of it HERE instead of over there.

I am glad to see the big middle finger flying towards the UN though.  Imbeciles.


The Iraqi oil production could easily finance the costs of the occupation, civilian relief efforts and any necessary reconstruction.  It's not like we're occupying a flattened western and central Germany in 1945.

As for the United Nations, it may be that the US will just have to learn to work around it when some veto-sensitive matter is involved, and work through it only when a Security Council consensus exists or a majority in the General Assembly exists to override a threatened veto.

Offline Eaglecz

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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2003, 04:57:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Bush's post-war plans include private US companies, exclude UN (WTFG BUSH!) [/B]



That link is true about you crisist .... i was pointing on this all the time...

So you wan permition to kill few tousand of people, because you need to keep money working and you are expecting UN to support you ?

i hope that other countries in ME will kick you out form Iraq with UN or without and Iraq will became free country for people of Iraq

a lot voices from Iraq already said.... We want them to kill Sadam and get out...

whats your point ? We wanna make some of our bussineses there

ehm ehm .... What a proper anti terorrist war !!!

moment... or was it "Disarming " ??

lie lie lie.... sooo poor lies

situation in US is same as it was in Russia 20 years ago


I expect that UN will remove americans from Iraq in moment when Sadam fall. Coz its only 1 way how to not ban US in rest of the world.
Sure every brave american will say... ban us, we dont need you... but you are very wrong
andi have to laugh how propaganda working... remind me "Peoples republic of China" :D

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2003, 05:29:01 PM »
How will iraq become free without us removung saddam hussein now?

We were begging for France and Germany and russia to join us for 7 months now, thats a pretty dumb way to try and ensure a us monopoly in iraq.

Offline Habu

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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2003, 05:50:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eaglecz
That link is true about you crisist .... i was pointing on this all the time...

So you wan permition to kill few tousand of people, because you need to keep money working and you are expecting UN to support you ?

i hope that other countries in ME will kick you out form Iraq with UN or without and Iraq will became free country for people of Iraq

a lot voices from Iraq already said.... We want them to kill Sadam and get out...

whats your point ? We wanna make some of our bussineses there

ehm ehm .... What a proper anti terorrist war !!!

moment... or was it "Disarming " ??

lie lie lie.... sooo poor lies

situation in US is same as it was in Russia 20 years ago


I expect that UN will remove americans from Iraq in moment when Sadam fall. Coz its only 1 way how to not ban US in rest of the world.
Sure every brave american will say... ban us, we dont need you... but you are very wrong
andi have to laugh how propaganda working... remind me "Peoples republic of China" :D


Lighten up conspiracy boy.......................

Offline X2Lee

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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2003, 05:53:12 PM »
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Originally posted by Eaglecz


I expect that UN will remove americans from Iraq in moment when Sadam fall.



Lol the UN cant remove us, what rock have you crawled out from under? Crawl back under it, worm.

Offline sling322

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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2003, 05:54:31 PM »
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Originally posted by Eaglecz
I expect that UN will remove americans from Iraq in moment when Sadam fall.


Heh....with what?

Offline Habu

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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2003, 05:55:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by sling322
Heh....with what?


Maybe the french army will pry them out with the poles from their white flags that they all carry.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2003, 05:57:48 PM »
The UN will ask America to remove the US troops, duh...