Author Topic: WWII trivia/opinion - biggest contribution. (Read 1426 times)

miko2d · « **Reply #45 on:** February 15, 2002, 07:39:38 PM »

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Originally posted by funkedup
Boroda, was there any particular person for the Soviets who was the strongest advocate of close support aviation? The use of "flying artillery" by the Soviets (as well as Luftwaffe, USAAF, USN, USMC, RAF, etc) was a really big factor.

There definitely was. Soviet strategic plans involved invasion and occupation of Europe under pretext of rescue from Hitler. Destruction of economy/infrastructure and population centers was not usefull in any way.

This is why soviets never created a strategic bombing forces despite having heavy bomber designs superir to anything used in WWII.

miko

miko2d · « **Reply #46 on:** February 15, 2002, 07:48:55 PM »

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Originally posted by Soulyss
might as well chime in here, I think whoever was responsible for cracking the Japanese codes, without which victory at Midway in 1942 would probably have been impossible.

With americans building over a dozen aircraft carriers for every one japanese, they could have lost Midway and still would have victory assured.

Name a country that used radar as well as Britain.
Germany had radar at roughly the same time. They didn't integrate it into a network like the British did.
I say again, what use is the radar for detection of LW raids if british intelligence knew everything that LW knew before the raids were launched - targets, times, etc?
What would you expect to see in the newspapers of the 1939? That brits had german codes cracked?
What did you expect to see in the history books? That the radar was just a cover-up for exploits of a convicted homosexyual genius?

Radar was usefull. It helped germans defend against allied bombers. Somewhat.

miko

Tac · « **Reply #47 on:** February 15, 2002, 08:48:27 PM »

"I say again, what use is the radar for detection of LW raids if british intelligence knew everything that LW knew before the raids were launched - targets, times, etc"

not exactly true. Whats the use of knowing the PLANNED target, takeoff times and planes involved if the great majority of the time they were off-schedule, changed in the last minute or affected by weather and human navigation errors? The 8th AF bomber missions rarely happened "as planned" (read: takeoff time, rendezvous points, rendezvous time,etc). LW missions were sure to be the same way.

Nashwan · « **Reply #48 on:** February 15, 2002, 09:36:56 PM »

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I say again, what use is the radar for detection of LW raids if british intelligence knew everything that LW knew before the raids were launched - targets, times, etc?

Ultra (codename for Enigma intercepts) was very rarely that good.
Coventry is often cited as an example, with the allegation Ultra revealed exact details of the plan, and Coventry was sacrificed to preserve the Ultra secret.
In fact, Coventry was identified along with two other cities in the Midlands, and 4 locations in the South East. All were given code names, and all identified as targets several days in advance.
The consensus of opinion on the day of the raid, however, is that London was to be the target. Coventry wasn't identified as the target until radar identified the bombers course.

If you take the BoB as an example, Ultra provided only one really valuable bit of information. In late September a message was intercepted ordering the dismantling of certain loading gear at German airfields, which meant the Germans were no longer intending to use paratroops in a major operation soon, which obviously meant the invasion was off.
However, no accurate targeting information was provided by Ultra, not even the German change in tactics to attack London.

funkedup · « **Reply #49 on:** February 15, 2002, 09:43:45 PM »

Miko you did read Cryptonomicon right?

Boroda · « **Reply #50 on:** February 16, 2002, 01:22:40 PM »

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Originally posted by miko2d

There definitely was. Soviet strategic plans involved invasion and occupation of Europe under pretext of rescue from Hitler. Destruction of economy/infrastructure and population centers was not usefull in any way.

This is why soviets never created a strategic bombing forces despite having heavy bomber designs superir to anything used in WWII.

miko

Miko, stop reading Suvorov's roadkill.

People at http://www.vif2.ru found out that the only page in his books where he doesn't lie is contents.

Finaly we have some books here proving that he is a liar, but I doubt that they'll be ever translated.

Boroda · « **Reply #51 on:** February 16, 2002, 01:28:39 PM »

Name a country that used radar as well as Britain.

USSR.

Soviet Navy was equuiped with modern radars since 1939. Radars prevented nazis from completely destroying Soviet ships in Sevastopol on June, 22nd. Navy was ready for an attack before any other Soviet troops, and People's Commissar Kuznetsov was the first official warned about the attack.

-dead- · « **Reply #52 on:** February 17, 2002, 03:14:25 PM »

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What US help did Britain have before. during or immediately after the BoB that was so crucial?
Lend-Lease supplies wouldn't start arriving for another year, and I hardly think the handfull of US volunteers for the RAF was crucial, do you?

One big thing the US gave the RAF was stocks of 100 Octane fuel, instead of the RAF's adopted 87 Octane (March - July 1940).

"All benefited from the replacement of 87 octane petrol with 100 octane, which increased the Spitfire's speed by 25 mph (40 km/h) at sea level and by 34 mph (55 km/h) at 10,000 feet."
http://www.deltaweb.co.uk/spitfire/survival.htm

Seeker · « **Reply #53 on:** February 17, 2002, 04:23:01 PM »

"What US help did Britain have before. during or immediately after the BoB that was so crucial?"

When was the Hamilton prop fitted to the BoB Spits, Nash? They started out with a two bladed wooden job, didn't they?

I remember seeing some jovial old ex-RAF type being interviewed on Discovery, and the reply to the inevitable "what did the USA ever do for us?" question from the pimply young interviewer was something along the lines of "proprs, gas, ammo supplies and production facilities.....

Nashwan · « **Reply #54 on:** February 17, 2002, 05:58:40 PM »

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When was the Hamilton prop fitted to the BoB Spits, Nash? They started out with a two bladed wooden job, didn't they?

It wasn't.
The first Spits were equipped with 2 blade fixed props, then iirc, 3 blade two speed props, then for the BoB they fitted de Havilland CS props.
I don't think Hamilton props were used on any production Spits, just de Havilland and Rotol, another UK company.

Nashwan · « **Reply #55 on:** February 17, 2002, 06:14:56 PM »

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One big thing the US gave the RAF was stocks of 100 Octane fuel, instead of the RAF's adopted 87 Octane (March - July 1940).

Not given, sold. The US certainly sold a lot of fuel to the UK.

Britain signed contracts for the purchase of 100 octane fuel in 1937.
The contracts were:
17,000 tons per year from Trinidad (BP?)
32,000 tons per year from Curacao (Shell)
25,000 tons per year from New Jersey (Standard Oil)

There were also two plants in the UK designed to produce 100 octane, although one of them had production difficulties.

A plant was also set up at Abadan in the Persian Gulf, and facilities in Curacao expanded (Curacao alone was producing 100,000 tons of the stuff per yer by 1942)

-dead- · « **Reply #56 on:** February 18, 2002, 11:59:16 AM »

Ooops ... yup - bit badly written (didn't mean to imply the US gave the UK the fuel free of charge, just meant they released ["gave"] the UK the technology).

However, with a little research on the web I note the US also sold the technology of making 100 Octane to Germany (through Standard Oil - I believed Shell sold them some too) & Japan (through Universal Oil), so that kinda narrows down the margin of that contribution.