Author Topic: Next scenario... please please  (Read 1033 times)

Offline Vulcan

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Next scenario... please please
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2002, 03:01:19 AM »
That would be nice Jordi, but its time to  << scream on >>  RIP THOSE ROSE TINTED GLASSES OFF YOUR FACE SLAP YOU AROUND AND WAKE YOU UP TO THE REAL WORLD  << scream off >> .

1st, time zones - me in NZ, some of them were Swedes, Germans, and Yanks.

2nd, several of the newbies actually signed up for the BW then signed up to AH 2 days before. So no MA practise was possible.

3rd, replies to emails were sparse (including the Squad CO, who didn't reply at all).

4th, about half those signed up never showed.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2002, 04:06:25 AM »
Totally understand where yer coming from Vulcan. Problem is - I have no idea what to do about it. What you suggested initially was some kind of scoring system, and while I'd be hesitant to use something like that based on performance or newness to AH, this scenario is the first that we're gonna start tracking attendance. If people who register demonstrate a pattern of not showing up, you better believe we're gonna take notice, and those guys aint gonna starve other people out of slots.

We've got room for only 250 people. With the numbers we're starting to see in AH, this is gonna start becoming a problem. Having to drop people using the lottery (pure random dumb luck) isn't a fully satisfying solution to me. That being said, there's no way I'd ponder a system that denies newbies to scenarios, nor denies people based on some kind of performance scorecard. How could we? Beyond going by attendance, I really aint sure what to do about it.

However, this is the first time the CO's will be placing everyone in squads, rather than having some kind of system do this. This will likely be done with a lot of feedback from you in the forums, so I think the CO's are going to have a pretty good understanding of what's going on within the squads... you'll just have to make sure that you bring any potential problems to the CO's attention. We'll see how that goes, and also be thinking about other things we can do to try and cut down on the kinds of things you're talking about. Cuz yeah, that's no fun.

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2002, 07:19:03 AM »
Quote
Havn't really flown either of those planes much, was planning to during this upcoming week.


Even if dont make the cut email me and I'll tell ya what I know.

However there should be one or two guys that that make it in the could give ya hand..........:)

Back to vulcan point

Offline jordi

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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2002, 08:05:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
That would be nice Jordi, but its time to  << scream on >>  RIP THOSE ROSE TINTED GLASSES OFF YOUR FACE SLAP YOU AROUND AND WAKE YOU UP TO THE REAL WORLD  << scream off >> .

Jordi - Actually they are a very slight shade of brown ;)

1st, time zones - me in NZ, some of them were Swedes, Germans, and Yanks.


Jordi - I was a Sqaud CO in Bigweek. I had several Euro Players and US players spread across 4 time zones. I made sure they were keep up to date on what was going on and encouraged them to have practices when it best fit thiers schedule. Ya tyhey would have liked to practice with the rest of us but that only happened on the weekend. I think at the very least almost everyone in my squad flew 1 or 2 practice runs with someone else in the squad before frame #1.


2nd, several of the newbies actually signed up for the BW then signed up to AH 2 days before. So no MA practise was possible.

Jordi - I asume you mean 2 days before frame #1 ? If so we the CM's never heard about that situation.


3rd, replies to emails were sparse (including the Squad CO, who didn't reply at all).

Jordi - Again - this is where I would start screaming to my Side XO CO. I would have been asking to replace those that have not responded to emails by those that did not get in originally. Heck I have seen regular pilots ASK to take over a squad due to lack of comms.


4th, about half those signed up never showed.

Jordi - You as a participant have every right to go to your side CO and tell him - player XYZ has not shown up for a pracitce, has not responded to any emails and did not attend frame #1 and 2 - I want to replace him with a pilot I KNOW AND TRUST will be there.


Again - All I can say is IF the samething happens this scenario go to your SIDE CO and let him know ASAP that there are problems. As you stated earlier - there are a lot of experienced Scenario pilots that may not make the reg process that can easily and quickly step into an open spot and fly.

As CM's we will be keeping as close of an eye as possible to problems like this to ensure as many spots as possible are filled between now and frame day.
AW - AH Pilot 199? - 200?
Pulled out of Mothballs for DGS Allied Bomber Group Leader :)

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Offline AN

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Next scenario... please please
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2002, 08:18:24 AM »
Nash:
----------------------------------------------
We've got room for only 250 people. With the numbers we're starting to see in AH, this is gonna start becoming a problem. Having to drop people using the lottery (pure random dumb luck) isn't a fully satisfying solution to me. That being said, there's no way I'd ponder a system that denies newbies to scenarios, nor denies people based on some kind of performance scorecard. How could we? Beyond going by attendance, I really aint sure what to do about it.
------------------------------------------------

When I first started AW scenarios, there were far more people signing up than could actually fly in the frames.

They used several methods that allowed anyone who signed up that opportunity to participate, instead of turning them away altogether.

The most used was a reserve list, where all squads were filled over capacity, and the extra pilots didn't fly the first frame.  When pilots died, they were put at the bottom of the reserve list, and the rest moved up into pilot slots.  Any noshows were put at the very bottom of the reserve list.  This also had the effect of making staying alive even more important.

However, with AH's frames being back to back, it would be hard to get this system to work.

They did use another system that I think would work.  

The squads were filled over capacity, and everyone was given one frame that they wouldn't fly.  If you weren't scheduled, you didn't have to show up, but if you did, you were given priority over any walkons for free slots.

This allowed for everyone to get a chance to participate in the newsgroups, practices, get to know their squads, what was going on, and all the other little things that make scenarios so special.

IMO, including everyone some of the time is better than excluding some people the whole scenario.

anRky
« Last Edit: February 18, 2002, 08:23:22 AM by AN »

Offline Nash

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« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2002, 12:37:38 PM »
"The squads were filled over capacity, and everyone was given one frame that they wouldn't fly. If you weren't scheduled, you didn't have to show up, but if you did, you were given priority over any walkons for free slots."  - Anrky

Hmm... Yeah that seems like a good idea. I remember that something like this might have been done for Hostile Shores - I'll have to go find out how it worked for them.

It may turn out that this won't work though, because I think 250 is the limit in the arena (flying or not)... At least that's the number where we know we won't run into problems with people disco'ing or not being able to enter the arena at all. If we have 250 flying but 325 total with the overbooked guys that are looking to fill in for no-shows, we've still got that problem. Then again, we probably get about a 75% turnout on average, so it may be a wash. Thanks for the suggestion Anrky, I'll make sure we look closer at that idea.

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2002, 03:24:07 PM »
in ak they stuffed the roster and the the first 10 signed flew with the rest as backups in order of the time they registered (i know 1st come 1st serve again :rolleyes: )

If you were a no show the next guy on the list was bumped up. If you died during the frame you were dropped to the bottom of the list. If you survived the frame (air frame and all) you flew the next one.

Also the backups had priority over any walkons so everyone who showed in my flight (if I remember right) ended up a part of each frame. (buffing tanking etc.....)

in hs i believe there was overflow as well and the fl decided who would fly first with some rotating and sitting out fer 1 frame. We didnt have any overflow flying 190f8s to go jabo a cv. For some reason folks weren't lined up for that job...:)

Offline Kisters

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« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2002, 07:09:33 PM »
All
Im basicaly new to AH so if anything i said has already been discussed, commented or basically feels too dweeby please forgive me, also im from Argentina, theres no such thing as "politically correct" here, so again i beg your pardon if i offend you (grammar might also disturb you).
Anyway i believe this is an important topic and posible issue (ie scenarios being too overcrowded) that HT needs to solve before it becomes a real problem.
As a subscription member (client, pilot, etc) whose main interest in AH is the SEA, i pretty much demand that if i dont cut it into the registered roster for the Scenario i get into a priority walk on list above the 2 weeks free walkons.
Harsh as it sounds its quite simple, i pay to play, i have the right to play if a spot is avaliable.
Scenarios are way to rare (temporaly speaking) and unique to be used as an advertisment tool to hook players, if you want them to taste what historically accurate, organized great fun feels like then have them join a snapshot (which should be weekly btw).
Also there are ways to ensure that the quality of the attendants stays high enough for everyone to enjoy, first you can assign walk ons (people who didnt cut it into the registration for example) to diferent squads so they practise together; theres no reason why walk ons dont have access to same practise if they want to practise for something they might not get, but they thats their problem.
Another thing would be making a rule by which every registered pilot has to attend at least 1 squad practise (or general practise) otherwise his slot can be used by someone whos not registered by attended the practises; of course there should be special case by case considerations to avoid abuse by COs who want spots for squadies, etc etc.
Finally i believe that 2week walk ons should pass a simple take off, form up, land and refuel test before being allowed into the scenario, once again a 2week walk on who know what hes doing should get a better chance to make it in. (to avoid discrimination special training sessions or increased trainers should be alocated so new pilots have the chance to get decent enough if they trully desire so).
I was a 2 weeks walk on for the first frame of BW, i hit a refuel hut leaving my squad undermanned, i didnt enjoy the experience personally but it was awesome to see the diferent squads all organized, so last 2 frames i joined a buff squad as walk on (figured they wouldnt be refueling) and had the greatest time since i joined AH.
Oh, i almost forget, if SEA too small make it bigger! so we dont have to worry about lists, only quality of players and training sessions etc.
Kisters

Offline Steven

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Next scenario... please please
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2002, 01:25:16 PM »
<<>>  -Vulcan

Oh, then ban experienced pilots.  Seriously, there is a Witch Hunt going on regarding "newbies" but it sounds like the problem of no-shows and participation is even across the board between veterans and newbies.  Now people are trying to play some "I've been here longer than you" or "I'm better at this than you" card to try to fill a slot.  Very pathetic.

Offline Badboy

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« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2002, 01:46:09 PM »
Hi Guys,

For those of you who read every forum, apologies for cross posting this idea.

I’d like to begin with a disclaimer, because I’ve never been involved in the organization of a scenario I may be off base here, but even so I'd like to propose a solution that may solve the current problem. Even if it doesn't satisfy everyone, I think it might still be a good idea, anyway... But please, if my ignorance of the inner workings of these events means the solution is flawed, please be gentle with me :)


Problem:
At the moment there are not enough places for everyone who wants to be involved in the Invasion Sicily Scenario. Basically, 4 frames scheduled for the 16th and 23rd of March are over subscribed and nobody wants to be left out.

Solution:
Simply repeat the entire event again the following month (or other suitable interval) and let all the reserves have their first choice.


Considering the amount of work and preparation that goes into a scenario, it seems a shame to make it a one off event anyway. Personally I’d like to see each event happen three times in a row, just to get the mileage from it that everyone’s effort deserves. I have often wished I could play an entire event from both sides. Not only would it give everyone a chance to participate in every scenario, at least once, it would also provide the events team with an opportunity to debug the inevitable issues arising after the first set of frames.

The only objection I can think of is the extra burden placed on the organizers. But that could be turned into an advantage. Once the wrinkles have been smoothed out of an event during the first round, the additional workload for everyone (all the way down through group and flight leaders) can be eased by introducing players into positions of responsibility that they haven’t previously attempted. That would not only provide an opportunity to train players who would like to accept more responsibility. At best it would provide a larger pool of competent players able to help take some of the burden, and at worst, it would give the less tolerant players a chance to see how difficult things really are when they are the ones in the hot seat :)

Badboy
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