Author Topic: Why no Ju87 (Read 887 times)

jpeg · « **Reply #30 on:** February 22, 2002, 12:42:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sikboy
Does anyone know how many RPG the Ju-87g Carry for the 37mm pods?

I think that if they figure out why 50 cals are punching out tanks, and stop this (assuming it's an innacuracy, and not by design)
...
-Sikboy

It shouldn't be stopped, P47's regularly blew up panzers and other ground vehicles with their .50cals

I have several videos showing it, if i have the time maybe i'll cap the sections and post the mpegs.

akak · « **Reply #31 on:** February 22, 2002, 02:11:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by jpeg

It shouldn't be stopped, P47's regularly blew up panzers and other ground vehicles with their .50cals

I have several videos showing it, if i have the time maybe i'll cap the sections and post the mpegs.

There were a couple of tricks that some US pilots used in killing tanks with their .50 cals. It was common practice for the panzer units to carry their own fuel with them on carriages towed by the tanks. The US pilots would aim for the fuel carriage, causing to to explode and catching the tank on fire.

There are also some reports and second hand stories about some US pilots that would see a panzer on a road and would come in to strafe the tank but aiming in front of the tank so the rounds would hit the road and ricochet underneath the tank, hitting its relatively unarmored belly. Art Mosier, a pilot in the 479th F.G., says he did it once in a P-38J and another time in a P-51D. Robin Olds, the former C.O. of the 479th also claimed to have killed a couple of tanks this way in a P-51D, shortly after the fighter group transitioned from P-38's to P-51's. I've never found an actual AAR debrief on this particular tactic but have heard and read enough personal and second hand stories from WW2 pilots talking about it so it has to have been done by some of the US pilots.

Ack-Ack
479th Fighter Group - Riddle's Raiders
KNIGHTS

Karnak · « **Reply #32 on:** February 22, 2002, 02:12:51 AM »

jpeg,

Yes, they did, but not nearly so easily or frequently. If fighters had been this effective against tanks the world's militaries would have given up on tanks and just built massive airforces.

The number of Panther Vs disabled by 20mm cannon in the month after D-Day can be counted on one hand.

Bombs and rockets (bombs in particular) were the big threat to tanks from aircraft, and even then the vast, vast majority missed and did nothing. Rockets had something like a 1 in 200 kill rate, 1 kill for every 200 rockets fired.

Big guns like those carried by the Il-2 (37mm), Ju87G (37mm),Hurricane IId (40mm), Mosquito XVIII (57mm) had a chance of destroying a tank, but even then the chance was so low that the RAF transferred the 57mm equipped Mosquitoes to the Coastal Command to be used against German shipping and U-Boats due to lack of effect.

The Browning 50 cal has a muzzle velocity of 880m per second and 17,800 joules at the muzzle.

The Hispano MkII 20mm has a muzzle velocity of 880m per second and 50,300 joules at the muzzle.

The NS-37 37mm (Yak-9T and Il-2 gun) has a muzzle velocity of 900m per second and 298,000 joules at the muzzle.

The Vickers S Class 40mm (Hurri IID gun) has a muzzle velocity of 615m per second and 214,000 joules at the muzzle.
The Molins 6 pdr 57mm gun (Mosquito XVIII gun) has a muzzle velocity of 790m per second and 989,000 joules at the muzzle.

...And the RAF found the Molins gun too weak to be useful, in a meaningful way, against German tanks.

Trust me, the Browning 50 was a great gun, but it wasn't a tank killer.

akak · « **Reply #33 on:** February 22, 2002, 02:22:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sikboy
Yikes! 6 rounds per gun x2 guns= not a lot of tank killing.

-Sikboy

Not in the hands of Hanz Rudel. The Ju-87 G-1 wasn't only equipped with the pair of 37mm flak guns but also carried eggs and 20mm cannon(s). Hanz Rudal destroyed over 519 Soviet tanks flying the Ju87 D-3 and G-1.

Achtung Panzer!

Ack-Ack
479th Fighter Group - Riddle's Raiders

Saintaw · « **Reply #34 on:** February 22, 2002, 02:27:03 AM »

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The NS-37 37mm (Yak-9T and Il-2 gun) has a muzzle velocity of 900m per second and 298,000 joules at the muzzle.

Huh ? the Yak 9T's shell is faster than a hispano ? 'this true or a typo ?

Karnak · « **Reply #35 on:** February 22, 2002, 02:50:17 AM »

Saintaw,

According to Tony Williams' book its true. That was the source for all of the data I posted above.

Mind you all, our Il-2 hasn't got it in AH. I was just noting the two aircraft that I know used it in reality.

Our AH Il-2 has the following:

The VYa 23mm cannon has a muzzle velocity of 880m per second and 77,400 joules at the muzzle.

Apar · « **Reply #36 on:** February 22, 2002, 03:24:47 AM »

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Would be very cool if we get a dive siren to go on the JU87. Imagine you're in the tower of a field under attack. I'd just sit there and listen to the attack while my field gets pummeled.
[/UNQUOTE]

BRING THE TRUMPETS OF JERICHO TO AH!!!!!!!!!!

TheOxman · « **Reply #37 on:** February 22, 2002, 09:09:24 AM »

There are alot of planes we all want. We all agree and more are better than none. I stated in another thread that AH needs to update the VG's. If they gave the Ju87 in the game to make it a true tank buster, it would need it's own dive bombing sights. The siren would be sweet , but not really needed. as cannons go the 37mm with high muzzle velocity would beat the .50cal. Ture the .50 cal is (by military standards a Cannon not a gun) but the ju87 would offer a dive bomber with a gunner in the back also. so the Ju87 might be a easy target , but if u have a gunner worth a crap you might be able to tear it up. In any case the Ju87 would be fun. and that's why we play anyway. Just the fun of flying a ju87 would be sweet. If they get the Ju87 to us imagine the sight of a mass formation of ju87 in the air for combat theaters and such. Of couse ya'll could be right the Ju87 would be a waste of time and an easy kill, but the only way to really find out is to let us fly it.
Other planes on my wish list are the Dauntless and the Jill or Kate. IMHO there is a need for more torp bomber and dive bombers. I get a little tired of flying the TBM and Ju88 just for a torp bomber. If no Ju87 the so be it , but please juat another dive bomber, any will do.

Sikboy · « **Reply #38 on:** February 22, 2002, 11:48:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by akak

Not in the hands of Hanz Rudel. The Ju-87 G-1 wasn't only equipped with the pair of 37mm flak guns but also carried eggs and 20mm cannon(s). Hanz Rudal destroyed over 519 Soviet tanks flying the Ju87 D-3 and G-1.

Well, that's great for Hanz, but I was thinking more of myself and my poor A2G gunnery

-Sikboy

Glasses · « **Reply #39 on:** February 24, 2002, 02:32:44 AM »

can you say WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA , as they richochet off the M3s armor in AH

illo · « **Reply #40 on:** February 24, 2002, 11:08:49 AM »

STOOOKAAAA!!!!

Btw. Ju87-G had 12 rounds per gun, making it total 24rounds. 6 rounds per clip. Look picture above and you can see all 4 clips.