Author Topic: HO's ... good, bad, and ugly (Read 1510 times)

WildBlue · « **on:** February 22, 2002, 09:08:36 AM »

Okay, I've noticed that HO is NOT the thing to do unless you want to be called a "dweeb". I have always avoided this "luck" shot, and have been successful in my avoidance, but... it seems there are people that actually TRY for this shot. And to be honest, after someone puts me in the situation of avoiding it 2 or 3 times in a row (okay, i'm not THAT good, lol), I simply give them what they are after, and shoot. I usually lose this, and the victor claims a true victory, but when I do win this, I am called a "dweeb" among other things. So, what's the big difference? If you win, it's good, but if I win, I'm a loser? Bite me! Lol, what's good for the goose... you know the rest. I'm not a newbie, been here off and on for well over a year now (yeah, I know you aces have been here longer), and long ago, no-one would force the HO. It's interesting to have the HO folks, it brings about a whole new defensive aspect, but hell, if HO is all you can do, just go somewhere else please. It is getting old. I have especially noticed this in the current C/T setup... those flying jap seem to love trying for HO shots. Hey, I know I can outrun you, but sheesh, gimme a break! And for those who will look at my stats and say my stats suck and I don't know what I'm talking about... hey, I know my stats suck, I'm not a scorepotato, and just because I'm not the best doesn't mean I can't comment on what I've seen! It comes down to this... if you force me into a HO, don't squeak if I win!

Lephturn · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2002, 09:33:38 AM »

Whenever you win, it's likely somebody will find a reason to call you "dweeb". Ignore it, it's just sour grapes because you shot them down.

To take the HO or not is a simple tactical decision based on your gunnery skills and a comparison between your plane's gun set and toughness and the other guy's. If you are a crack shot and flying a plane with good guns... fire away. Just remember that it is a high risk shot, so factor that in if you can get a better shot instead.

That said, avoiding the HO attack, done properly, confers an angles and energy advantage on the avoiding fellow, not the shooter. I wrote a bit about it in an article here:
http://lephturn.webhop.net/hodefense.htm

Do it right, and after the other guy tries two or three HO shots, you will hold all the cards, even if he started with a large advantage. If the fight starts very even and he goes for the HO, you can lead turn him very effectively and gain enough advantage for a quick kill.

Kronos · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2002, 09:38:27 AM »

Ahhhh... the age old argument.....

Who HO'd who?

Just squelch the people giving you grief over channel. Take the shot.

Broes · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2002, 10:06:45 AM »

Even a good HO'er will die eventualy and if you want to get a higher K/D ratio then something between 1 and 2 you need to start practising tail chasing. But for newbies (like me

) HO'ing is often easier to get score then tail chasing.

Broes

eskimo2 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2002, 10:09:11 AM »

Last night I repetedly found myself low, slow and outnumbered in an A6M. The odds were as bad as 10 to 1 at one point, almost always at least 2 to 1. I couldn't afford to take the time to line up any shot other than a quick HO. I suppose that we were all dweebs, them for gang-banging, me for HOing. Either way, I was happy to trade 1 for 1. Call it what you want, it was the best option in the givin situation for me.

eskimo

Eagler · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2002, 11:30:09 AM »

to HO or not to HO that is the question

the answer depends on many things

is it me or is the zero and the cane's (the 1st one on the list) cannons about 300% more powerful than any cannon combo on any of the 109's?

I feel like Luke Skywalker with his light sword shootin with those things, they cut through anything. Sawed a F4U right in half with one ping

Steven · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2002, 11:31:44 AM »

I never ever understood this anger towards the HO. Maybe it's just a very vocal minority who are against this method of combat. I've actually read many accounts where the HO was a viable tactic during WW2. And today's missiles have accentuated this tactic. Isn't it "kill or be killed"? The one-v-one arena (whatever it's called) is the proper place to go if a player wants to dictate the rules of a fight but not in the swirling skies of the MA and CT. You play with your opponent too long and you run the risk of losing due to an additional enemy aircraft joining the fight.

The thing that is dissapointing though about the HO is the lag. There are times where it looks as if I have enough angle off where my opponent's guns are not trained on me and we fly past each other to begin a swirling dogfight...and no kidding here, but then sometimes a full two seconds after having passed each other and having never seen any tracer fire, I'll hear the impact of bullets and lose my empenage. This can really anger and upset me and I try to remember it's not the other player's fault but the difference in what our FE's show. I'm a lousy shot and suffer from a 13" monitor (until I can buy a new one...just bought a big screen HDTV so it may be a while ) so I personally rarely take a serious HO shot but sometimes I'll throw some bullets out early to make the other guy point his nose away a little bit.

I opened up "Fire In The Sky" and quickly found this (further search would probably come up with many more examples):
pg 456. "Note that an aggressive American pilot welcomed a frontal, or head-on, attack against a Zero."
pg 479. "Head-on was good, too. I'd take a head-on with them anytime."
pg 491. "The head-on attack was part of the American repertoire of basic combat techniques since being recommended by Chennault."

skernsk · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2002, 11:50:42 AM »

I can be a bad HOer at times. Mainly because I'm lazy and willing to take the 50 - 50 chance I'm going to win.

If I choose not to HO and attempt to avoid it I ALWAYS get hit by the other guy as he flies past me at a ridiculous angle.

SirLoin · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2002, 11:58:38 AM »

To me,a HO is a desparation move..It means your are outnumbered in a fite and will do any means necessary to even the odds...To others though,it's a way to try and get a kill without any thirst for a fite...This of course plays right into your hands as he tries to line you up for a HO,you are of course making a jink and converting E as he misses and you of course use your move to get the easy kill......That's when you know you've killed an HO dweeb...

This tag of "HO Dweeb" does not apply if you are in a FW 190A8...

Soda · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2002, 12:25:45 PM »

The only time a HO really annoys me is when I figure the other guy had lots of options but decided to just HO instead. It honestly doesn't take 2 to HO since if one person doesn't accept a HO then they tend to give up position and a close front quarters shot. Too many people in AH can make that shot if given it. HO'ing is realistic though, that's been supported several times before, and there are ways to avoid it most of the time. Then again, when you're the underdog and getting jumped by a bunch of enemy the HO is sometimes you best option so I don't blame people for using it. I do at times.

Almost nobody will call you a HO dweeb if you have no options but to HO, but if you have lots of options and you still insist on HO'ing everyone, well, wear the "HO dweeb" tag with pride.

Some could say attacking B17's is like HO'ing them every time

-Soda

Nifty · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2002, 12:42:05 PM »

I don't know about the rest of you, but if an enemy has his plane pointed at me, I'm pointing my nose in his direction. I want to increase his AOT (angle off tail) as much as possible. This is going to invite the head on. If they go for it, so much the better, I can gain angles on them. If they start manuevering to avoid the HO (they think I'm gonna take it) I've got two choices. I can try and take the front quarter shot (but if I miss, I'm giving them a possible angles advantage) or I can use their avoidance to go for the angles myself.

Front quarter passes I prefer, I'd rather have 'em coming that way that crawling up my 6.

Udie at Work · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2002, 01:49:54 PM »

To this day one of my favorite kills is to come in HO from one of the front quarters 2 oclock or 10 oclock. I nice burst of deflection fire and the guy is lit up

BUT

if you are on defense sometimes the HO is the only option to take. Gotta get under the nose of his plane ya know.

Head On's are a valid tactic in my book. You just better make sure you know what you're going HO against. Not to wise to HO a 190 or f4u, you never know if they have 4x20 mm pointing at you

Lephturn · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2002, 02:26:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by skernsk
I can be a bad HOer at times. Mainly because I'm lazy and willing to take the 50 - 50 chance I'm going to win.

If I choose not to HO and attempt to avoid it I ALWAYS get hit by the other guy as he flies past me at a ridiculous angle.

If this is the case it usually means you are either not doing enough to evade, or you are not ding it early enough. Hit your evasion at D1.5 in a HO, and by 500-300 you should be hitting your lead turn. Most times I get hit HO it's because I didn't evade early enough. Because of net lag you need to evade much sooner than it looks like... but that also means you can start your lead turn earlier too.

ergRTC · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2002, 02:14:53 PM »

I had a great ho the other night. Mauser in a zero was in deep, saw me coming in my f6f started for the ho took my rudder off. I complained at him for the HO (i just dont shoot and evade, rarely do I get hit). Immelman, here he comes again for another ho, but he had less alt and e. All I had to do was zoom climb alittle and immediately drop on him. Raked his whole aircraft nose to rudder with 3 .50 cals (he went down real fast after that). hehe ultimate revenge on HO. I have noticed that many pilots in CT do not shoot on a pass. This is good. Dont think I would be playing suicide games if I were a pilot in ww2.

Samm · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2002, 02:40:40 PM »

"Hey ! Ho ! Let's go !
Shoot em in the back now ."

-Joey Ramone