Author Topic: fighting in a spiral (Read 458 times)

bozon · « **on:** February 28, 2002, 02:50:54 AM »

seem like everybody just discovered the spiral move.
the passing week, in the MA, every time i get a little advantage, the other guy starts to go spiraling down.
I just can't get them when they do it. I either roll fast inside them and pull hard for a snap shot, which i usually miss and get thrown out of the spiral, or lag turning them till the deck and waste them as they have to pull out. since I'm usually reluctant to end up slow on the deck (flying jugs and hellcats mostly) this move works great and they escape.

what's the best way to win a spiral (as the attacker)?

Bozon

bikekil · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2002, 04:13:23 AM »

don't "pull hard for a snap shot"

you need to keep[ your E advantege, so don't loose it on hard turns if the enemy is in the better turning bird. just do your thing vertical. he 'll need to avoid your attacks again and again... and soner or later he do a mistake

Naudet · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2002, 04:35:42 AM »

bozon, i would just wait till the tgt ends its spiral.
As long as he spirals down, keep ur alt and wait for him to level out. Once he did, use your alt to B&Z/E-Fight him till he loses.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2002, 05:00:01 AM »

bozon, I suppose your problem starts with the enemy at your 12, into guns range and in a Co-E situation. That is, the enemy start turning, you follow the con in the turn but he start going down and turning with you at his six, ending in a diving spiral move.

If the enemy is "good", he will stop his spiral dive as soon as you stop following him. So, if you abort the pursue and try to recover alt to start pure boom&zoom moves against him, he will do exact the same move but in the opposite direction at the same time. That is, you two will end again in a Co-E situation, but you will be no more at his dead six and into guns range.

If you want the kill, there are no more enemies nearby and you have no problems loosing a lot of alt, my advice is to follow the enemy in the spiral diving, but exchanging angles for speed and energy. Follow the turning dive but easing both, diving and turning. The enemy will not ease any of them cause he is still being "pursued", probably he will even tight the turn trying to catch your six, no problem with that. Give him your six and then convert the fight into pure vertical, but this time you will have clear E advantage over the con.

If you want to get the kill as fast as possible and dont want to give up your angles advantage, try to dive behind him doing a wide open barrel roll nosedown and cutting gas.

aknimitz · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2002, 06:46:11 AM »

What MAND said. If you want to win a defensive spiral, the key is to get slower than the defender. This means chopping (possibly killing) throttle, possibly killing engine, and flaps. In the F4U, you can drop your gear. All these things will keep you poised behind the enemy without the risk of an overshoot. Be patient, watch his flight path (it will become predictable), and take your shots!

Nim

Vermillion · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2002, 08:59:17 AM »

Its alot like 6 months ago, when everyone "discovered" the Split-S as a defensive manuever.

Let em go. They might have evaded that one attack but now they're MUCH more vulnerable. If you don't get him, they'll be just as dead very soon. Patience grasshopper.

My Suggestion is if they go into a defensive descending spiral, level your wings, pull up and go vertical on him. As you come over the top watch to see what he's doing.

If they pull out of the spiral your set up for a quick pass on him, and switch back to typical BnZ with superior E.

If they continue the spiral and you wish to push the attack, your now directly over him, and to change directions you will use roll rate, instead of turn rate. IE he can't outturn you now and you will have a beautiful planform shot. But just don't burn up too much E in the dive and recovery.

Just my opinon

Lephturn · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2002, 09:13:28 AM »

I like Verm's setup.

The key is to maintain your superior E, and slowing down to follow him doesn't allow you to do that and makes you an easy target for the next guy that comes along. Far better to retain superior E and use a vertical attack to capitalize on your roll rate for a shot.

Am0n · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2002, 09:45:56 AM »

downward spiral is a "sucker move" used to create over-shoots.

In other words, do not follow them. In this case i would take the above stated advice, let them blow there E while you retain yours, i would extend up slighty personally, or maybe hi yo-yo (added at edit) depending on your E state.

they are dead at this point you have the E advantage.

As a rule of thumb im trying to not follow anyones manuevers while in persuit, they are nearly all designed to create over shoots. the best idea is to counter there manuever not mimic it.

aknimitz · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2002, 11:46:12 AM »

Absolutely agree with what Verm said as well. However, if you do want to engage another plane in the defensive spiral and come out on top, I suggest using the ifnormation I provided above.

Nim

bozon · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2002, 03:40:55 PM »

thx for all the replies.
avoiding the overshoot and maintaining the advantage is not such a big problem. if it's 1vs1 and i'm in a jug or hellcat I'd be happy to let him go to the deck and take him out there with superior E. but in the MA this won't work - I'll get ganged in a sec.
Vermillion,
I like your suggestion, letting him drop, building vertical seperation and moving to BnZ. I'll try that.

thx
Bozon

Wotan · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2002, 06:07:35 PM »

I personnally use a defensive spiral in a d9 vrs faster or higher p51 normally as the 51 closes in gun range I start a slow turn making it tighter and steeper. If the 51 goes for the snapshot he will over and usually climb I then level in the opposite direction and climb depending on my speed.

If i see him slow and try to pull lead I will widen the turn, level fer speed, then begin a shallow climb a 51 usually tries to follow burning more e then I reverse.

Xaqut(sp) or some guy with a like nick spanked in such a manuvre how ever as soon as he saw me begin to turn he went up and waited then came in again he kept me on the defensive and eventually put me on the deck and killed me it was his 10th kill.

We started at 20k with him maybe a bit higher. 3 turns in spiral is usaully enough to create space. However I have seen others go all the way to the deck in a deep spiral. To me that takes you all the way out of the fight.

I only do this in a d9 to keep my speed near 300 and when I see an opportunity to extend I do.