Author Topic: Bf 109f-4 (Read 407 times)

Sal Paradise · « **on:** March 06, 2002, 11:13:00 AM »

Posted this in the Help and training but I guess this would be the correct place to post,
Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for flying the Bf 109f-4 its pros and cons, what to do in a dog fight and what not.
Thanks

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2002, 11:25:24 AM »

Try to fight in the vertical. This plane is a good climber and a good turner, good overal acceleration also. Its poorest performance is just the control at hi speeds, u will loose aileron authority very early in the dives. It is the slower 109, but also the best turner of its family. Good for base defense, but poor for interception. My advice is to load the extra pair of external 20mm guns if you plan to engange any buff.

Be aware, compared with SpitIX u are outeverything if flying 109F, but not for a wide margin.

IMO, for a better balance between maneouverability/speed/climb, go for 109G2.

Sal Paradise · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2002, 11:45:44 AM »

Kewl, Thank you. That is what I needed to know!

funkedup · « **Reply #3 on:** March 06, 2002, 02:14:19 PM »

A rarely acknowledged fact is that you can out climb and out run any Spit at low altitudes (below 5k).

Urchin · « **Reply #4 on:** March 06, 2002, 03:23:15 PM »

Outrun- yes, barely.

Outclimb- no. All the 109s EXCEPT the F4 can, but the F4 can't outclimb a Spit IX.

funkedup · « **Reply #5 on:** March 06, 2002, 07:20:30 PM »

10 mph is more than "barely".

As far as the climb rate, check out the charts. In WEP the F-4 has a slight advantage on the deck against Spit 9.
Against Spit V it's no contest. You just have to hope the 109 pilot is dumb or can't shoot.

Urchin · « **Reply #6 on:** March 06, 2002, 11:02:38 PM »

The climb advantage the 109F4 enjoys over the SpitIX is negligble, if it exists at all. The two charts aren't to the same scale, but it looks to me like the SpitIX can at least match the F4's climb performance on WEP, and probably beat it. I will grant that the F4 has a lot more WEP though, so it would outclimb it eventually, if it didn't die first.

illo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2002, 06:38:19 AM »

Hmm..Urchin 109f4 was almost equal in climb with 109g2. 109g6 was well inferior to both.

hazed- · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2002, 07:37:45 AM »

see what you've started???

now ill have to break up urchin and funked before they beat the hell out of each other!

'urchin stop it! put down that bat!'

'Funked! firearms arent allowed in the yard you know that!'

SageFIN · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2002, 07:41:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by illo
Hmm..Urchin 109f4 was almost equal in climb with 109g2. 109g6 was well inferior to both.

Well, according to the AH charts the F4 and G6 are equal climbers at sea level, while G2 climbs a bit faster (~100 FPM) and Spit IX a bit slower (~250 FPM).

However, the climb rate of G6 and G2 increases steadily until it hits the critical alt, which apparently is about 5K or so. At that point the both apparently climb as fast and they hold an advantage of about 500 FPM compared to the F4.'

Spits climb rate equals F4's at about 10K and after that the Spit climbs at least as fast or faster.

Soo, at low alts the 109's climb faster than the Spit and also G6 and G2 clearly faster than the F4. At high alts F4, G2 and G6 are almost equal while Spit is definitely the best climber.

Data scavenged from Jochen's Java'ed AH charts. See for yourself here .

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2002, 08:37:22 AM »

You guys are forgetting an important part here: what the charts show is SUBSTAINED climb rate for a determined speed (different for each aircraft). This means little in combat, were u rarely will do substained climbs.

As an example of climbers, 262 climbs at 3000 fpm, P51 outclimbs that, however the first do that at 300 mph and the second at 160 mph, and will be outclimbed by the 262 in the case he wants not to increase the horizontal separation.

Also, AFAIK, the speed used for the charts is just the optimal for each aircraft for sea level.

What about comparing spit and 109 zoom climbs starting at different speeds? IMO, a decisive factor for combat.

Sal Paradise · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2002, 08:49:57 AM »

I can see that it will outrun a spit barley, When in the MA or CT and a spit is on my six, I always stay ahead of them but they are always on my tail till the end. I have gotten better about vertical moves and avoiding there spray of bullets for a short while, but still end up getting shot down. So most of my time in the fight I am running and not firing. Against other planes this is different but with the spits I am always running. What am I not doing correct?

Thanks for all of your responses.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2002, 09:08:56 AM »

In combat (not in charts) 109F is beaten by spit in every single cathegory at any altitude. U may be marginaly faster than Spit, but not enough to do enough room to plan an effective ofensive move. If you go up, Spit will outzoom you, if you go down spit will outdive u, and will be far more controlable than your 109F at hi speeds. It also outrolls and outturns you, and is able to retain the E better while hard maneouvering. So, dont expect to defeat the spit based on the performance of the 109F. U will be able to outfly the enemy pilot, but not the enemy plane, so better improve your SA to know with enough anticipation whether or not you are in advantage possition to start an attack, or perhaps u need to bug out inmediately.

Sal Paradise · « **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2002, 09:23:14 AM »

My thoughts were correct then, only thing is every time I am in the MA there is an infestation of spits, so bugging out would occur more then I would care to! Thanks for the information

Author Topic: Bf 109f-4 (Read 407 times)

Sal Paradise

Sal Paradise

Sal Paradise

Sal Paradise