This the way I see AH:

[CavemanJ]

"Auto Climb not have a standar speed , able to setup by the player in each takeoff or in Hangar."

I guess you've never heard of the .speed xxx command?  Each aircraft has a default speed for autoclimb, but the player can change that speed at any time with .speed xxx

[highflyer]

Only way to make iconless combat truly real in this game is to restrict players countries to plane types. In other words, your country can ONLY fly LW, or Brit, or US etc., so that enemy players can ID you as enemy. I doubt that will happen as too many players don't like THAT much realism.

actually, what if ALL enemy planes had no icon(is already an option) and friendlies showed in green (already a part of the option) PRESS ALT i to cycle through the modes.

The only problem I have with the above, is that... If person A is using an Iconless mode for ALL enemy... Then how to make sure everyone is on the same page of simulating more of a realistic ( no icon message above a plane) type of flight/simulation.

 

MPH vs Kmh. Very minor point. It would make life easier for players based in metric system. No problem with this as long as it is a player option. Should be selectable in player setup.

I agree,.. but then not Entirely.

I feel that If this SIMULATION of aircombat in INDIVIDUAL planes is to be represented. It should be of utmost importance that the aircraft have not only the External look/FM characteristics,.. But also the  Replication of the cockpits as well.

As far as all the "GAMEY" options to add as far as to appease a less realistic sim oriented crowd, example ammo counters... range finder via the icon system. Its fair to have them, but possibly implement a system of which shows who is using what in the battle, and or the ability to level the playing field.

Maybe Combat arena would be the place for this.. not sure.

Even there we still see range information when it should be completely clear to see the bandit 0 - 1000 meters in front

I agree whole hartdely with the Idea of turning off the Icons when within the 0 - 1000 meter range.

[Toad]

Popeye, your assessment is pretty accurate.

No need to hash out the old icon/no icon, range/no range debates though. There's plenty of previous threads that deal with this stuff in detail. In those threads there are very many good, factual explanations of the need for some additional visual cues in a 2D computer game.

However, the myopic, misinformed "harder = realer" crowd just can't accept the truth.  

[garrido]

Hello friends: I need a friend translator to suitably respond to its objections or suggestions.

 Now I am using Altavista Translator, and works bad.

 Single a question: Mister Maverick and Mister Toad, that airplanes you habitually fly?

A greeting

Supongo

[garrido]

hello:

P.D for Mister Maverick and Mister Toad:

I agree in not modeling the adjustable trim by the pilot to those airplanes that they do not have

 you also in agreement?  or they prefer combat trim?


Salute

Supongo

[streakeagle]

Another chance to shamelessly plug the Combat Theater:

For all its limitations, it permits a far more "realistic" immersion: Everyone has short range icons, countries fly their respective planes, etc. It even has a fairly accurate rolling planeset.

I never fly with Combat Trim, not even offline. Though I do rely on the autopilot for climbing and getting a good level trim out of laziness   If you turn your own icons completely off, you will be at a disadvantage, but eventually you will get much better at recognition and gunnery  

Ammo counters can only be fixed by HTC. Personally, I don't fly by them. My trigger pulls are generally independent of the count because usually I am too busy flying to watch them.

As for engine management, I am happy either way. My general laziness makes the current setup more practical, but I will always advocate features that enhance realism and immersion, including deletion of the auto pilot  

Overall, HTC could leave the game as it is, and I would still be happy. I am just anxious to see how good AH gets over time. So much potential for an even better sim that they steadily exploit with each new revision.

[streakeagle]

My first double post to my knowledge  

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: streakeagle ]

[Tac]

would be interesting if the icon settings would be selectable before flight only (like tracers).

If you select friendly icons only, you wont see enemy icons... but the enemy wont see YOUR icon either,even if the enemy player selected full icons b4 take off..but the enemy player WILL see your wingman that selected full icons when he took off.

This way it wont be unfair to either side of the discussion. If I select no icons, ill have the same darn hard time seeing and fighting you than you will have seeing and fighting ME. If I select full icons like you did, it would be like the fights we have now in the MA.

B4 flight icon options:

Plane Type ID Icon On/Off
RangeFinder On/Off
Friendly Icons On/Off
Icons On/Off

So, if a player select ID icon OFF and RangeFinder OFF, Friendly Icons ON , Icons ON he would see:

All friendly icons (without rangefinder, so all he would see is the green pilot's name), red icons would show only the enemy country icon (aka, a little Knit, Bish or Rook symbol over the con). The enemy players will only see the player's country icon.

Since icons appear at 6k, any schmuck will know that is he sees an icon, no matter if it has rangefinder or not, he will know it is inside 6k.

Another good feature would be to have an "ID" button similar to the 6-call button.

This "ID" button would only work when there is an icon visible (aka, if enemy has NO ICONS selected, you wont be able to use this feature). When you see an icon..say, a red Rook icon (no rangefinder, no ID), you press this button until you highlight him, let go. 4 seconds later, the plane's ID pops up for 5 seconds and then dissapears back to a Rook icon.

This would simulate the "focus on plane and ID it".

Sound fair?

[highflyer]

Yes tac

[Drex]

Long winded here, but a different spin on why this will be difficult to implement.


I just think that in Aces High you have furballers who make up the majority of the player base.  I might not be understanding your ideas correctly, but it would seem that it would give the realism players, who feed off the inflow of planes to a furball, some sort of stealth mode.  Not saying that wouldn't be fun.   I love realism, but you have to call a spade a spade.  This would not benefit the Main Arena in playability.  The main arena for online WWII flight sims has been the same for many years.  It will never be fully realistic in world war II air combat tactics.  A higher percentage of the engagements in a MA are at low altitude.

The great thing about the Main Arena is that you set the mood.  If you want to be immersed into a more realistic flight you can choose to take off in the hanger.  Taxi to the runway, do a pretake off check, and go wheels up.  Never hit the auto pilot and continue to manually fly in a strait ascending line checking your 6 every so often.  Pull the manifold back to realistic settings.  Reach over and turn the icons off, and immerse yourself in flight while choosing your fights to maximize your energy advantages.  Why it works.  Because no matter how the 2 different players fight.  When it comes to a 1 on 1 engagement its all about the geometry of combat, which is fun no matter if your Eric Hartmann or Scott Williams, sitting in his house talking to his wife about her day and reversing 2 f4us that just bounced him.

Imagination is the key for the full realism arena pilot trapped in the MA.  When you don't care about putting yourself in a disadvantge with icons to chase realism.  When the thrill of the flight is all that matters and who shot you down isn't.    
The pressure we put on being an ace in our peers eyes makes that tough.  So the icon issue as long as it has been debated comes down to this.  The Main's setting is the best to host all the different types of simmers.  The Events are for the forced realism.

The main arena is up to the player to set the mood of immersion and enjoyment.  

Drex

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: Drex ]

[majic]

Couldn't agree more Drex.  IMO the majority of the players in the MA don't have the time to learn how to fly a real WWII plane. They just want to enjoy themselves for a few hours a week, when time permits.  This may offend some of the reality hounds, but it is the way it is.  Not trying to incite something, just an opinion.

[Nifty]

I could do without the range finder, but give me some indication on rate of closure due to the limitations of the monitor vs what I could see in a real airplane.

If Andy Bush says trim is a secondary flight control in flying combat aircraft, well, that's as close as I'll get to hearing the truth.  AFAIK, Andy is the only fighter pilot that posts on the board (albeit in a little bit more advanced AC than the WWII planes  ).  If that's the case, then leave combat trim as is, a user option.  Anyways, most of those who don't use CT say they think manual trim works better for them anyways.  *shrugs*

Weapon counters...  I wouldn't have a problem with not having them in AC that didn't have them.

MPH vs KPH...  I'm all for it!  Historic cockpits/gauges would be great, IMO.

Engine management...  hmmm, that might cross the line of not being fun to the average AH flyer.  Sorry, but it might just be a gameplay concession on that one.  OR... have engine management, but have an auto management (much like fuel management) for those who don't want to get to involved in all aspects of flight.

[Tac]

Well Drex, the thing is, why model planes so accurately to just throw them into a gamey arena? The CT also suffers from it, SEA as well..but these last 2 have it more controlled than MA (planeset, missions, etc).

True, screens will never (at least not now) give the same visual cues as being inside a real plane. Yet this ww2 SIM is not simulating WW2 combat.. its merely using its clothings. The great majority of MA kills and engagement wouldve been fantasy in RL (d900 snipah fire?)

Imo, the icon thing I posted above would not make much difference in the main arena, people that are newbies or cant ACM will still play with full icons, and they will be fighting those with either equal skill or relatively higher skills than their own that still use icons. Those who want to be a step closer to simulating ww2 combat will be able to turn off rangefinders, but keep their ID icons. These people will not be much more of a threat to the newbies since these guys will have to get in CLOSE to get a kill..and it will educate newbies on how to start judging distance on such icon settings (you learn by getting shot down, its the only way). One step further is to remove the ID tags and rangefinders, but keep the icon on. Finally, those who want complete challenge fly without enemy icons (since no fixed planeset, friendly icon would remain on)

Stealth tech for vets? Thats kind of double-edged. Only those without icons would have that thing... and even then these people have to ACM an enemy they cant insta-reacquire a visual on, so any newbie pulling that stick for dear life on his n1k or spit has a damn good chance of completely evading a vet in his ride of choice. Sciscoring without icons is nerve-wrecking let me tell ya  

[Drex]

Let me see if I understand your icon system with this scenerio.

I'm flying in my p47 and turn off all icons that I can see.  Now, if I were to head towards a furball.  I can see their dots quite easily.  I select one and go in for the kill, now with me turning off my Icons he cant see me either even with his Icons on full?

Drex

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Drex:
Let me see if I understand your icon system with this scenerio.

I'm flying in my p47 and turn off all icons that I can see.  Now, if I were to head towards a furball.  I can see their dots quite easily.  I select one and go in for the kill, now with me turning off my Icons he cant see me either even with his Icons on full?

Drex

Friendly icons still on? I suppose killshooter needs to be dropped in this case if not. How many perks for shooting a countryman down?  

Mav

We have the CT for all this "realism" stuff. Good place to experiment.