Author Topic: spits, spits, and more spits. (Read 2571 times)

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #30 on:** March 12, 2002, 12:31:41 PM »

Didn't see anything about lopsided numbers westy... just the unusual ratio of spits to p47s and p38s. With the request that something be done about it.

lopsided numbers are another story... and when you have to modulate that by creating a less desirable CT... then you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Even in the other thread.. the complaint wasn't about numbers but rather having a chance against the planeset.

As I read through this thread and the other, the age old question comes up. Does the LW complain because they lack numbers or do they lack numbers because they complain.

When I fly the CT.. I fly LW because I like to have more enemy to engage. I've killed more spitfires than anything else. I just fail to see what needs to be fixed in that scenario. And I really fail to see what merrits "spitdweeb" being thrown around in this arena too.

AKDejaVu

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #31 on:** March 12, 2002, 01:02:34 PM »

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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Didn't see anything about lopsided numbers westy... just the unusual ratio of spits to p47s and p38s. With the request that something be done about it.

[/B]

My post had little to do with Spitfires and a whole lot to do with sheer numbers. I enjoy fighting Spitfires in my 205, and it wouldn't bother me if every single enemy I encountered in the CT was some Spitfire variant. What made the CT experience so horrendous wasn't what was flying against the Luftwaffe, but rather the sheer numbers flying against it. It may be historical for the Luftwaffe to be continuously outnumbered two, three, or sometimes four to one or more, every night for a week... but it's also not very fun. I don't enjoy being someone's gangbang fodder.

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lopsided numbers are another story... and when you have to modulate that by creating a less desirable CT... then you are shooting yourself in the foot.

[/B]

I don't fly in the CT anymore because of the consistent, often ludicrous numbers imbalances I faced when flying there. Would modulating numbers create a less desirable CT? It's hard to make it any less desirable to me at this point.

-- Todd/Leviathn

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #32 on:** March 12, 2002, 01:13:39 PM »

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My post had little to do with Spitfires and a whole lot to do with sheer numbers.

And your post was the first to mention numbers. Not a single one before yours did.. and yours was well down the list. The thread was started by someone else. Someone else that did not mention anything but overuse of a plane.

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I don't fly in the CT anymore because of the consistent, often ludicrous numbers imbalances I faced when flying there. Would modulating numbers create a less desirable CT? It's hard to make it any less desirable to me at this point.

I did not say a numbers imballance was fun for the LW flyers. I just doubt that reducing the numbers of pilots flying for the allies to match the numbers flying for the LW is the right direction to go.

I also have doubts about the "there aren't enough LW flying so I'm not going to fly in the CT" crowd. Nothing better than reinforcing the lopsidedness. Of course, you combine this with the "I see too many spits so I'm not going to fly" crowd and that really doesn't leave many.

8:1 numbers are not a result of an arena imballance. They are the result of an individual thinking he should be able to fly and fight allone regardless of what the enemy wants to do. Disregarding all other options... many of those individuals choose to log off. Its better than flying with a group of people from your own country.

AKDejaVu

hblair · « **Reply #33 on:** March 12, 2002, 01:33:48 PM »

The purpose of the CT is to be an alternative to the MA. I believe the setups should be fun first and historical second. If they were perfectly historical they would be lopsided and noone would fly there. Sometimes they are not as perfect as we would like them to be. We learn from our mistakes and move on. We are limited in the terrains we have at our disposal right now but have more on the way. My WWII arena planeset is up next week and then hopefully we'll be flying in a brand new terrain/setup the week after. Please don't write the CT off just yet. Keep trying it out.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #34 on:** March 12, 2002, 01:43:56 PM »

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I also have doubts about the "there aren't enough LW flying so I'm not going to fly in the CT" crowd. Nothing better than reinforcing the lopsidedness. Of course, you combine this with the "I see too many spits so I'm not going to fly" crowd and that really doesn't leave many.

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If refusing to be gangfodder in an arena that I did not find enjoyable because of its massive numbers discrepencies reinforces lopsidedness, so be it. It wasn't always that way. In fact, the numbers were quite even (even with Spit Vs active, I might add) in the terrain before that, leading to plenty of excellent matchups between Ki-61s, N1Ks, F6Fs, P-38s, etc. Once the switch was made to the Sicily terrain, for whatever reason -- planeset, inclination, scenario training -- the numbers gravitated toward the Allies so extremely as to make my time flying there less enjoyable than I'd hoped. As I pay to enjoy my time flying and not provide an extra target for hordes of enemies, I've chosen to fly in other arenas for now.

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8:1 numbers are not a result of an arena imballance. They are the result of an individual thinking he should be able to fly and fight allone regardless of what the enemy wants to do. Disregarding all other options... many of those individuals choose to log off. Its better than flying with a group of people from your own country.

[/B]

I don't think that you're getting that these were the odds while flying with people from my own country.

-- Todd/Leviathn

hblair · « **Reply #35 on:** March 12, 2002, 01:52:24 PM »

Also, keep in mind that there were allied squadrons practicing in the CT this past week which did affect the imbalance at times.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #36 on:** March 12, 2002, 01:57:02 PM »

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If refusing to be gangfodder in an arena that I did not find enjoyable because of its massive numbers discrepencies reinforces lopsidedness, so be it.

LOL! Now.. if refusing to fly in that arena because of lopsidedness prevented you from commenting on how lopsided it was everyone would be happy. Work/play to solve the problem or shut up.

I also challange anyone to show that the "gross lopsidedness" is causing the Axis to suffer heavier casualties... causing them to be "gangfodder"... or anything of the sort.

The fighter kills are still very close in the arena. That tells me that for every "gangfodder" situation one side encounters... the other is seeing the same thing somewhere else. Time to scout your fights better.

AKDejaVu

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #37 on:** March 12, 2002, 02:07:08 PM »

BTW... I'm not trying to bag on the CT. I like the idea of it and think it has its own brand of fun. I just grow excedingly tired of the continuing "your ruining my fun" death spiral that is always dominating the discussions here.

Its not everyone else that makes this game fun for you. Virtually ANY unpleasant scenario anyone describes here can be easily avoided... its just that they feel they shouldn't have to avoid it.

If not enough unpleasantness is occuring, we must complain about the less pleasant... then about the not necessarily pleasant... then just create things to complain about.

Bah... why bother. No matter how you do it, someone is going to complain about what people fly. They are going to complain about numbers (both sides) and they are going to threaten to quit/not play until things change. It just gets tiresome watching people come here and reinforce that time after time.

AKDejaVu

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #38 on:** March 12, 2002, 02:24:04 PM »

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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
LOL! Now.. if refusing to fly in that arena because of lopsidedness prevented you from commenting on how lopsided it was everyone would be happy. Work/play to solve the problem or shut up.

[/B]

I flew when there was a problem, then I stopped flying after awhile because of it. I don't quite understand what more you'd like me to do other than to continue being vastly outnumbered. I was there, I flew it, I tried to make the best of it, and then I got bored. This isn't a matter of put up or shut up, DejaVu. It's a matter of when enough is enough. Honestly, it's like you think I showed up, checked the numbers, and then logged off if they didn't suit me. It's more like I showed up, flew for a week straight while generally being outnumbered, and then just stopped showing up when I got tired of it.

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[/B]The fighter kills are still very close in the arena. That tells me that for every "gangfodder" situation one side encounters... the other is seeing the same thing somewhere else. Time to scout your fights better.[/B]

The arena setup has changed recently, possibly skewing your findings. As well, I found that many Axis kills resulted from vulching fields. When you're in a vulching situation, and you have a target rich environment... the vulch kills tend to pile up.

In addition, the numbers discrepencies I've mentioned only hold for the times I was flying. I have no idea what the arena numbers were when I wasn't around, and it's entirely possibly that the situation reversed itself at every other time, evening out the aggregate numbers. However, if you want specific support for my case, check out Westy's post. NathBDP would surely back me up as well. Hblair has basically admitted to a numbers discrepency in posts here.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #39 on:** March 12, 2002, 02:32:52 PM »

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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Bah... why bother. No matter how you do it, someone is going to complain about what people fly. They are going to complain about numbers (both sides) and they are going to threaten to quit/not play until things change. It just gets tiresome watching people come here and reinforce that time after time.

LOL I don't remember asking that anything change in the CT. I was merely making an observation about conditions in the CT, and I gave reasons for why I don't fly there right now. I didn't insist on any changes, and my returning there isn't conditional upon anything. I fly where it's enjoyable, and I don't fly where it's not enjoyable. I didn't like the consistent numbers disadvantages, so I left. How do you get, from that, that I threatened to quit or not play until things change?

-- Todd/Leviathn

keyapaha · « **Reply #40 on:** March 12, 2002, 02:39:01 PM »

balance who cares about balance not me i prolly the worst pilot in the CT maybe thats why. all i want is to be part of history all be it vurtral. this game which i stumbled upon by accident doing a search is a fantasy come true to me.
if i could ever go back in time a ww2 fighter pilot is what i would like to experence even if on some cold jan afternoon high above germany i get killed to me it would worth it to fly one of these birds for real back then
but in a way ill take what we have now least if you get killed you can reup over and over and over again so even if its 10 to 1 spits to whatever i dont care less u actually care about your pilot score. nuff said

hblair · « **Reply #41 on:** March 12, 2002, 02:51:53 PM »

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Originally posted by keyapaha
if i could ever go back in time a ww2 fighter pilot is what i would like to experence even if on some cold jan afternoon high above germany i get killed to me it would worth it to fly one of these birds for real back then

Now there's a true-blue WWII aviation buff!

K West · « **Reply #42 on:** March 12, 2002, 02:51:54 PM »

"less u actually care about your pilot score."

Personaly I could care less about score. I'm strictly into enjoying myself when online which most often is finding (or trying to) good, exhilerating air combat. For me it's not being a punching bag for a team of back slapping gang bangers nor is it by joining them in doing the same with someone else.

Essentially I could not improve or make clearer what Todd/Leviath tried to express in several of his last posts if I had a 100 years to do it. So what I can do is back him up with a resounding "what he said!!"

Westy

Nath[BDP] · « **Reply #43 on:** March 12, 2002, 04:10:50 PM »

Looks like DMF defeats AkDejaWho? again.

Btw, the CT does suck, for the reasons listed by Leviathn. Mostly being outnumbered and having cloud layers come in to give more of an advantage to the Allied P47 BnZ cherry pickers.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #44 on:** March 12, 2002, 04:19:17 PM »

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It's more like I showed up, flew for a week straight while generally being outnumbered, and then just stopped showing up when I got tired of it.

And now you just complain about that week. As if it is the standard for all that is CT. You can't quit playing because the CT is a certain way and then maintain it is still that way.

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The arena setup has changed recently, possibly skewing your findings. As well, I found that many Axis kills resulted from vulching fields. When you're in a vulching situation, and you have a target rich environment... the vulch kills tend to pile up.

Hmmm... you quickly dismiss exactly what you are complaining about.

The preferred method of operation in the CT (and MA for that matter) seems to be to want to follow the path of least resistance. Most chose to engage in numbers against fewer numbers. Some call it milkrunning. Even to the point that it is done "much of the time". Numbers have nothing to do with it. The first thing a person does when they get into a bad numbers situation is to look at the roster and cry "numbers are skewed"... even though only 20% of the enemy was in your area... and there's only a 1.5:1 numbers advantage. I guarantee... somewhere else someone in your country is engaging the enemy with a numbers advantage.

Damn... I even see someone here trying to justify "spits make it too difficult" because 4 pilots managed to stop him from destroying a CV... as if the planes actually made the difference.

Sigh.

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In addition, the numbers discrepencies I've mentioned only hold for the times I was flying. I have no idea what the arena numbers were when I wasn't around, and it's entirely possibly that the situation reversed itself at every other time, evening out the aggregate numbers. However, if you want specific support for my case, check out Westy's post. NathBDP would surely back me up as well. Hblair has basically admitted to a numbers discrepency in posts here.

Why bother? People only remember the bad times when they are posting about the here and now on this BBS. They only remember the good times when they are posting about the past. That's why someone will insist that the CT is like the good ole days... and then get pissed when they discover its exactly like the good ole days.

AKDejaVu