Author Topic: Game coding vs warps..... (Read 235 times)

SKurj · « **on:** March 10, 2002, 10:25:15 PM »

Ok...

I have noticed that in BIG furballs or anytime there are a large amount of aircraft in one area (base 'suppression') the game can get warpy. Planes dissappearing, microwarps galore etc etc.

It would make sense to me that positional updates are sent to the clients based on his proximity to other players.

If i am in a corner of the map all by myself, i will get very few updates with fairly long intervals in between.

If i am having a 1 v 1 or 2 v 2 i will recieve a moderate amount of updates from the aircraft locally with a very short delay between intervals.

If i am in a furball, i will be receiving a huge amount of updates(of course) at a VERY high rate(short time interval between updates)

To me this explains the warps in a big furball but NOT where they come from.
I see players blaming the server, to me this makes no sense.. I would think HTC provide their own hardware, no matter which ISP is hosting. (am i wrong?)
UNLESS HTC's hardware that they have been using to date is now unable to keep up with the number of players.

So it is now down to connection... You may not see warps in a 4 v 4 fight but once the fur starts flying and there are 15 planes or more in view, you could very well see warps. Even 1 packet lost or delayed from ANY of the clients in view, could terminate in a warp on your FE.

Now for those that do not know...

AH uses UDP. UDP does not acknowledge packets sent like TCP/IP. With TCP/IP a check is in place to see if the arriving packet is in correct sequence with the previous one and if not a message is sent back to the source and data is resent. (slooooo relative to UDP)

UDP is one way as it were... a packet is sent and the destination doesn't care if it is in correct sequence or not, if the packet is damaged even I believe it is just discarded and we move on to the next one.
This provides MUCH faster transfer and less network traffic, but missing packets will cause warps..

Ok thats my take on whats happening, and a very simplified definition of TCP vs UDP..

Mebbe HTC can comment, and perhaps someone learned something +)

SKurj

J_A_B · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2002, 12:05:43 AM »

All I know is AH connects are worlds better than AW ever was. I'm totally 100% utterly satisfied with AH connects

Still, I wouldn't mind seeing some thoughtful discussion.

J_A_B

AKIron · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2002, 12:21:01 AM »

Skurj, I think you got the gist of it right but a few packets being dropped probably won't cause noticeable warping. Planes stay on your screen and keep flying even when you're not getting updates on them. I'm sure AH has some routine that extropolates the A/C path based on previous data.

I believe "warps" occur when the extropolated (projected) path/position of the A/C doesn't match the actually position of the A/C when new data is received.

Sometimes planes just disappear and reappear in another nearby spot (warps) and sometimes they just move very fast to a new location. I suspect that which they do is dependent upon how far apart the data is. If the displacement is small, they warp to the new location. If it is large they move very fast. This is probably intentional to help us better track a badly warping plane.

SKurj · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2002, 01:47:00 AM »

Yeah AKIron I realize there are prediction routines in place, but obviously noone will ever get them 100% correct(impossible).

I just hope that we haven't reached a wall as far as technology goes where the hardware can't possibly keep up.

SKurj

steely07 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2002, 03:08:36 AM »

HTC have ordered a very large "pipe" from the phone company,they are just waiting for it to be installed at Skuzzy's place,and things will be cool,where the server is now is an isp hosting other things through their connect (i gather) so you get the kinda warps you are talking about.
when the telco delivers,voila dedicated "largepipe" for the MA..and mebbe CT

All back to smooth.

Oh this is just a summation from what i read here on the BBS,i'm pretty sure i'm right but pls correct me if wrong

Tac · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2002, 09:20:11 AM »

"HTC have ordered a very large "pipe"

You do realize thats Texanese for "bigger bong" dont you?

AKIron · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2002, 09:30:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SKurj
I just hope that we haven't reached a wall as far as technology goes where the hardware can't possibly keep up.

SKurj

I share your hope. Technology walls crumble frequently, the future looks bright.

SKurj · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2002, 10:40:38 AM »

Hey Steely

I think the bigger pipe will improve things abit BUT if the issue is one of CPU and hardware, it won't do a thing...

The new pipe will also improve things only over a small section of your route as well. If your problems come from outside that section(your isp for example), again, it won't help you.

AKIron, is the 64 player object limit one of these technology walls?
The new map size (4x the current) makes me wonder.... is it the 64 limit, and other hardware limits neccessitating this?

I can't wait for the larger map, but I also hope HTC will consider a second arena. I don't know what HTC's current player base expansion rate is, but the current terrains certainly can't handle (IMO) the current numbers.

SKurj

AKIron · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2002, 10:54:27 AM »

Skurj, not sure but I think the 64 user object limitation is only a code limitation. It's probably in there because of user hardware and bandwidth limitations. Both of these areas are being advanced as we "speak".

steely07 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2002, 01:11:11 AM »

Skurj,the way hardware is going i don't think we have to worry about "limitations",clustering and other such arcane wonders will save us...

As for any limits in the code,it's HTC's own code and you know HTC,always improving things,in fact a big to HTC for their netcode,it is the best i've seen,i have occasionally tried to play other online games and am just unable because of my connect,in fact the only reason i didn't play any of the beta versions of Aces (started around ver 1.??) is because of my bad experiences playing FPS's online,i thought"well if i can't even play unreal on a local server how the hell's an online flightsim gonna cut it"...well it sure does "cut it ".
No Tac i didn't know that,in Australia,we call a bong a bong,or a billy

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2002, 02:56:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
"HTC have ordered a very large "pipe"

You do realize thats Texanese for "bigger bong" dont you?

I think that's Earthling-esefor "bigger bong."

I was wondering about the jumps/warps myself. I noticed a lot, and I wonder if people notice it in me as well. for me, they occur on the deck most often, surrounded by a/C, smoke, and ground / sea effects.