AH aircraft engines, best, worst, middling, what do we have?

[Karnak]

I am curious about the engines that each kind of aircraft carried in AH.  For example, the Spitfire MkIX had 4 different engines.  I'm sure that other aircraft follow the same pattern.

What I'd like is for those who know about these things, for any aircraft, and who know the engine modeled for the AH version of the aircraft to post the pros and cons of each engine for that aircraft.  If possible indicate how many aircraft of the types used each engine.

I'll start with a few British aircraft.

Mosquito Mk VI

The Mosquito FB.Mk VI used three different engines, the Merlin 21, Merlin 23 and Merlin 25.  I am unsure on the differences between the Merlin 21 and 23 as I have always seen them listed as producing the same power, there may be altitude performance differences.  The Merlin 21 and 23 produced 1,230hp.  The Merlin 25 produced 1,635hp.  The advantages of the Merlin 25 are obvious.

The majority, my a good margin, of Mosquito VIs were equipped with the Merlin 25.  I have never been able to find actual numbers, but the impression I get is that only those Mosquito FB.VIs originally ordered and Mosquito B.IVs were equipped with Merlin 21s or 23s.

The Mosquito Mk VI in AH is equipped with the Merlin 25, the best available engine and the most representative.

Spitfire Mk IX

There were four different engines used in the Spitfire Mk IX series, the Merlin 61, Merlin 63, Merlin 66 and Merlin 70.  The Merlin 61 was the first 2 stage Merlin engine and produced the least power of the various Mk IX engines.  The Merlin 61 is tuned for high altitude performance, only obtaining 321mph at sea level but managing a respectable 408mph at 25,000ft.  I know little about the Merlin 63, and it doesn't appear to have been used on many Spitfire IXs.  The Merlin 66 was a two stage Merlin tuned for lower altitude performance and producing more power, reaching ~335mph at sea level and 404mph at 19,500ft and a very good 372mph at 8,200ft.  The Merlin 66 also increased the climb rate significantly.  The Merlin 70 was the high altitude tuned counterpart to the Merlin 66.

The first 300-400 Spitfire IXs were equipped with the Merlin 61.  Approximately 70% of the 5,665 Spitfire Mk IXs produced were powered by the Merlin 66, in addition all Spitfire Mk XVIs (basically a Spitfire Mk IX powered by an American built Merlin engine) were powered by Packard Merlin 266s, the American version of the Merlin 66.  Most of the remaining quantity of Spitfire IXs were powered by the Merlin 70.

The Spitfire Mk IX in AH is equipped with a Merlin 61, the worst available engine, save that the AH Merlin 61 does not have a float carburator.

Seafire Mk IIc

The Seafire Mk IIc was powered by two different engines, the Merlin 45 and Merlin 32.  Early Seafire IIs were powered by the Merlin 45, which was tuned for optimum performance at 13,000ft and produced ~1,440hp.  The Merlin 32 was a low altitude tuned Merlin producing 1,645hp.  Merlin 32 equipped Seafire IIs mounted a 4 blade rotol propeller, were significantly faster and had a greater rate of climb.

The majority of the 372 Seafire Mk IIs were powered by the Merlin 32.

The Seafire MkIIc in AH is powered by the Merlin 45, the less effective of the two.


I have heard that the Typhoon in AH has a more powerful engine that earlier Typhoons, but all my references only mention the Napier Sabre II at 2,180hp, the same engine as on the Tempest.  They do mention chages in the propeller and conckpit, but no engine differences are discussed.  Somebody with more knowlege about Tiffies will have to clarify that.

So, lets have the data for some other aircraft.

[eddiek]

I need to update and upgrade my aircraft library, obviously!

Think fast, which one aircraft is faster than any published speed found online or in a reference book?

[Kweassa]

Easy, Aces High Bf 109G-10

 With a hot 448 mph at 22k.
 (Most  sources state about 425 - 435 mph)

 Detailed discussion here

 I wouldn't mind if they toned down the G-10, and gave us a perk K-4

[Karnak]

eddiek,

The Mosquito stuff is from a few differnet books on the Mosquito.  The Spitfire/Seafire stuff is from: Spitfire, The History by Eric B. Morgan and Edward Shacklady.

Kweassa,

Yes, but I don't want to sort through a novela and try to pick the real data from the fake.  That thread told me basically nothing about the G-10s engine, but quite a bit about G-14s and K-4s.

I'm looking for:

The "X" had a, b, c and d engines.

The a engine is .  The b engine is .  The c engine is .  The d engine is .

Production with engine a was, with b was, with c was and with d was.

The "X" has c engine in AH and that is the second best engine.

What I don't want is a detailed list of all sorts of weird variants that the Germans were so fond of.  I just want the straight forward info.

[eddiek]

Been intending to get America's Hundred Thousand for quite some time now, but each time I try to order it, I find it on back order.
Am wanting to get some of Warren Brodie's books, the guy seems to have been on the ball and snatched documents that might otherwise have been lost or destroyed.
Regarding the G10, what I am interested in finding out is how many of the G10 series had our particular engine?  Refits at a repair center are BS.  How many new 109G10's left the Messerschmitt factory equipped with it is what I would like to know.  American planes could be refitted with different engines also, but what we look at is what each model and the engine is was initially built with.
Okay, Karnak, gonna bow out now, if I keep on your thread might get hijacked.  

[Wmaker]

Bf 109G-10 had the following different engine types:

DB 605ASB,

...AS-engine combined DB 601A-1 engine and DB 603's supercharger.  This engine used normal, 87 octane, B4-fuel with a compression ratio of  1:7.5.

DB 605ASC,

...this was essentially the same engine but used higher octane (93) C3-fuel which also required higher compression ratio (1:8.5).

DB 605ASM,

...this is AS-engine with MW-50 water methanol injection. It used B4-fuel with MW-50 and had to use C3 without it. MW-50 allowed the use of lower octane fuel and this was very important to the germans at this point of the war.

Here are some figures from power curve found from Suomen Ilmailuhistoriallinen Lehti 4/1995 (Finnish aviaition history magazine).

These figures are generic figures for AS-engine without MW-50 and with 1.3 ata boost (Climb and combat power, not emergency power).

(The power curve in the magazine is small, so appox. figures)

1240hp, 0m
1300hp, 2000m
1250hp, 4000m
1210hp, 6000m
1200hp, 8000m
965hp, 10000m (this figure was mentioned in the article itself)

AS-engines were specifically designed to perform better at high altitudes. Regular DB 605A-1 gives higher power out put until the altitude of 6000m where the two power curves cross each other.
MW-50 injection raised the out put significantly. DB 605A-1 had 1475hp out put at 1.42 ata (Emergency power) that could be raised to 1800hp with it. That should give a rough idea about AS-engine's performance with MW-50.

Here's some data for DB 605ASB from an orginal document:
(Couldn't get it small enough to attach it)

0m, 1435hp, 1.42 ata
0m, 1275hp, 1.3 ata
0m, 1040hp, 1.15 ata
0m, 800hp, 1.05 ata
8000m, 1200hp, 1.42 ata
7800m, 1150hp, 1.3 ata
7100m, 1040hp, 1.15 ata
6700m, 900hp, 1.05 ata
10000m, 925hp, (boost pressure left blank)


DB 605DM,

...DB 605D with MW-50 water-methanol injection. I've seen figures between 2000hp-2200hp.

DB 605DCM,

...this is the engine that Aces High's G-10 has. According to Hannu Valtonen's (director of Central Finland Aviation Museum) book MESSERSCHMITT BF 109 JA SAKSAN SOTATALOUS, Daimler-Benz performance sheet lists out put of 2200hp with MW-50.

Originally posted by eddiek
Regarding the G10, what I am interested in finding out is how many of the G10 series had our particular engine?....  

....How many new 109G10's left the Messerschmitt factory equipped with it is what I would like to know.

The actual production total of G-10s is unknown...let alone the numbers with individual engines. Production estimate of G-10s is 2600.

Originally posted by eddiek
Refits at a repair center are BS.

Just as much BS as field kit paddle blade props. And I'm fine with paddle blade prop for D-11. But it is no way different than repair center refits.

Here's how the engine type of AH's G-10 can be determined:

[Wilbus]

Karnak and everybody else, how do you determine what engines AH planes have? Performance charts only?

Will post about the Ta152 later.

[MiloMorai]

From "Allied Piston Engines of WW2" Graham White

Typhoon IA - Sabre II > 2090hp/3700rpm/4000ft - 1735hp/3700rpm/17,000ft

Typhoon IA/B - Sabre IIA > 2220hp/3700rpm/2500ft - 1735hp/3700rpm/17,000ft

Typhoon ?? - Sabre IIC > 2420hp/3850rpm/SL - 2045hp/3850rpm/13,750ft - 1735hp/3850rpm/17,000ft

Typhoon IB - Sabre VI > 2600hp/3850rpm/2500ft - 1970hp/3650rpm/17,000ft

Tempest V - Sabre IIB > 2420hp/3850rpm/SL - 2045hp/3850rpm/13,750ft -
1735hp/3700rpm/17,000ft

Tempest ?? - Sabre V > 2420hp/3750rpm/4250ft

Tempest - Sabre VI > see Typhoon IB

[eddiek]

"Just as much BS as field kit paddle blade props. And I'm fine with paddle blade prop for D-11. But it is no way different than repair center refits. "

Sorry my friend, but the D-11 does not have paddle prop.  Nice try tho.  It has the toothpick prop.
Adding the paddle prop to make the plane more representative of the planes that actually fought in th ETO was discussed in here almost a year ago, and I believe HiTech stepped in and said we weren't gonna go there.
Anyway, thanks for the info, WMaker.  Pretty cool stuff ya got there.  After reading it, it seems there is no "right or wrong" way  to model the G10, as it had so many engines any one would be correct.

[Wmaker]

Eddiek...I know there isn't any paddle blade prop on AH's D-11. I brought it up because I remembered you wanted it in that thread you mentioned and I knew they were retrofitted. Well, first of all nothing that could affect AH 109 modelling much was done in the repair centers germany had. I just think that doing stuff in the repair center is comparable with fitting a paddle blade prop in the field. So you wanted paddle blade prop but you said doing stuff in the repair center doesn't count. You can't have it both ways is what I meant. I just wish you would leave G-10 alone now . Its speed is modelled correctly, trust me .

[MiloMorai]

The Junkers VS10 propellor on the Fw190D-11 seems have mighty 'fat' blades.

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Wmaker
Its speed is modelled correctly, trust me .

So Said Satan to Eve:)

[Karnak]

An example of repair shop changes would be the Seafire Mk IIc.  The Seafire Mk IIs built with Merlin 45s had their engines replaced by Merlin 32s when they went in for major work.  Most Seafire Mk IIs were built with Merlin 32s.