Dont forget about the F4U-1D

[juzz]

It's all about having cannon, and lots of them.

Guess which plane scores better, but is mostly inferior to the F4U-1D in all but firepower...?

Imagine if the USAAF had chosen to fit four 20mm Hispano to the P-51D... Can you say "Aluminium overcast"?  

[Hooligan]

Juzz:

I believe that excepting firepower, durability and roll-rate the P-51D does everything better than the F4U-1D in this game.  I certainly find it to be a far superior ride.

Also the US did experiment with 20mm armament for nearly every US fighter type,
but they preferred the 6x.50 weapon set.  This indicates to me that the difference in effectiveness between 6x.50 and 4xHispano in the real world was much less than it is in AH.

Some of the Allison-engined P-51s were armed with 4x20mm Hispano with 125 rounds per gun.  These are lighter slightly more agile aircraft than the P-51D and would make wicked arena aircraft under 15k.

Hooligan

[juzz]

I was talking about the Fw 190A-8...

And an Arena chock full of cannon-toting Mustangs...

[Hristo]

It is not proked .50 cals. They are lethal enough, just ask all the 190s losing wings with a short burts.

What makes Hispanos so uber are icons. If you do not believe it, go fly Hog in iconless setup and record your K/D. You might be surprised indeed.

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JG2 "Richthofen"

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 05-27-2000).]

[Dinger]

 

Also the US did experiment with 20mm armament for nearly every US fighter type, but they preferred the 6x.50 weapon set. This indicates to me that the difference in effectiveness between 6x.50 and 4xHispano in the real world was much less than it is in AH.

Bureaucratic decisions are never valid premises for conclusions about "the real world."  This is especially true concerning the military. (cf. e.g., the Somme).

Dinger
(No I donīt want to start the MG/cannon debate.)

[ra]

The -1D is a great bird in it's own right, but why fly it when you can fly the -1C with the exact same performance but 2 or 3 times the firepower?  That's my main gripe about the -1C, it completely negates the value of the -1D, which it did not do in the real world.  Rant mode off...

ra

[wells]

yes, the 190 and F4u have nearly the same 'rate' of turn, but the Corsair does turn inside it and can hold a firing solution.  The 190 should always use the vertical to cut across the circle or else force the F4u to bleed even more E in lead pursuit.  Lasz, in that report, the inital speeds are not given so we don't know anything about the initial turn rates or G loads.  I believe that the relative performance for a sustained turn is accurate though.  Clearly, the 190 can't pull as many G's as the F4u from a fast attack speed (300+), but in a sustained turn, the G's are about the same (the Fw flying the circle faster).

[Wardog]

Ra. (why fly it if 1C...)

One reason. The challenge.... There are a number of people who fly different AC for the challenge.

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by funked:
Last time I flew it, an Me 109 dove from 10k above me and HOed me LOL!!!

I was only 1k above ya..and I had the 30mm on...gota use what you have.. I didnt dare turn I thought it was a 1c....

[funked]

LOL Pongo stop stalking me!!!!!!!  

[-lazs-]

funked... Maybe low and slow the 1C will outurn the 190 but if you get that slow in this game you are dead unless the arena is deserted.  I still say that the 1D seems to turn slightly worse than the 1C also.

ram.. Few too many head butts?  Do you really believe that a well flown Hog will outturn a well flown spit?  Do you really believe that a P51 turns worse than a Hog?   Why don't you SHUDDUP until you have something accurate to say?

toad... I have not heard any outcry to fix the FM of the Hog despite the real world comparison testing..   I don't think too many really care.  I maintain that if the fifties and the FM were fixed the 1C would not be as popular.  This game is very cannon biased.   With the slow gameplay from the mushy turns it becomes a game of firepower and patience.  Firepower is number one tho... An impatient person with cannon can get kills even if it costs him a death by "wading in" and not being concerned about getting out.   A very patient person with fifties can pick his kills and take only the shots that will result in a good sustained burst on the target.   Snapshots or short bursts from fifties result in the kill being stolen by a cannon bird.  People with average patience will do far better in cannon planes than the fifties equipped ones....

Which brings us full circle... For the vast majority of players, cannon planes are the only option in the arena.   for a very few skilled players who also have a lot of patience... The added ammo of .50's planes can be an asset over the cannon.  
lazs

[funked]

I would love to have 6 fifties in my Spitfire.  Unfortunately the RAF didn't think that was the best setup.  I wonder why...

[F4UDOA]

Hey,

It has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread that there has been no major out cry to fix the F4U's FM. Well guy's I am one person who has been screaming since December.
I will not get into the gorey details in this post as I am tired of hearing myself complain. However I am the person that posted the actual flight test between the F4U-1D vrs the Fw-190A5 as well as the P-51B. Which for people who may not know this are two A/C that had what is generally better performance IE speed, climb and turn radius than the Fw-190A8 and P-51D modeled in AH.
 http://members.home.net/markw4/FW190_F4U.html   http://members.home.net/markw4/index2.html
Pay attention to climb acceleration and turn radius. Then compare against the AH flight model and judge for yourself instead of complaining about the 1C's cannons you can wine about the porked FM. I am tired of being the only one.

Later
F4UDOA

[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 05-28-2000).]

[ra]

Wardog,

I dont need to be told about wanting a challenge.

You make my point.  The only reason to choose the -1D over the -1C is for the extra challenge.  The -1D was a fine fighter in the war and is good in AH.  The -1C makes the -1D the choice for Hog drivers who want a little extra challenge.

The Navy was not interested in challenge, yet they chose the -1D over the -1C.  That has always been my gripe sbout the -1C, in AH it renders the -1D moot.

ra

[Sox]

I bet by the end no one will read what i have to say here. This out turning your oponet,  yes on paper it sounds good, but flying in circles is dumb. I fly the P51 pretty much all the time now. But i can make it out trun anougher P51. In real life people dont use the same plane like others would. So it is going to act diffrent for every one. Im thinkin that Pyro and company have tried very hard to get this planes to ack like thay would in real  life. But still in a game or real life it is all up to the pilot and his skill with a plane. You can out trun anything if the other pilot dont know what the hell he is doing. Because in tests it is just pilots going around in circles but not geting shot at. Its not a matter of geting right on ones 6 its a matter of being half way close to get a shot on him. Thats not out turning anouther. Any plane can be a death trap or at the same time be a UFO.  Once again it is the PILOT.
I dont read what the real life planes can do, cause im not flying a real aircraft. I do try very hard to learn the way theses planes fly. And stop triing to compare im to real life. If you dont than you spend more time squeaking about what the should do rather than what thay realy do in the game. The only reason for saying any of this is to get some Heat from it. I like a good chalange. Like i said in one last post i wish some one would start some thing with me. COME on people im begging.  

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VMF-212  Lancers