Author Topic: Convergence Settings Suggestion (Read 412 times)

Bullethead · « **on:** March 18, 2002, 10:33:01 PM »

I've recently been tinkering with the .target command and while it's nice, it's a pain to use for fiddling with your convergence because you have to be flying at just the right alt to get an accurate idea of results. It would be nice if you could use this on the ground.

So what I was thinking was making some changes to the convergence setting area. Have the plane on blocks so it's level. Allow players to get inside the plane and shoot the guns. Have the .target command work here so players can see what convergence for range X does to them at range Y.

What do you think?

xHaMmeRx · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2002, 07:05:46 PM »

It would be nice, but probably very low on the priority list. Until then, check out my Weapon Performance Page .

HaMmeR
www.netAces.org - Tactics, Plane Data, and More!

hitech · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2002, 08:07:08 PM »

A plane isn't on blocks when it shoots in the air. The pattern would be different with out the recoil effects acting on the plane.

J_A_B · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2002, 10:22:09 PM »

Keep in mind Hitech that reality is irrevelent in a computer-generated universe. You can choose your own reality, in essence.

You could program the "plane on blocks" to fire as if it were flying.

J_A_B

hitech · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2002, 09:17:41 AM »

While you are correct J_A_B, that's not as simple as it might sound.

The more complex we make a model, i.e. lots of diffrent forces acting on the plane,the more difficualt it becomes to run a simulation of the simulation.

The ". target" as it is now shos a lot of effects most people do not consider.

For instance how the faster you go causes a bullet to drop more in relation to a target that is a relative fixed distance from you.

Or how they drop less the higher you go.

Or how they drop differently out the front or back of a b17.

In the end I belive we are giving bullethead what he wishes, and that it is a more accurate picture of what different convergance settings do in varing conditions.

With static block shooting , it would portray a false picture.

HiTech

hazed- · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2002, 11:01:36 AM »

fantastic page bullethead. thank you very much for the time it must have taken to test and make up that website.

Its added to my 'favourites' and its extremely usefull.

J_A_B · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2002, 11:29:36 AM »

The problem with the .target is you have to manually aim and it's really hard to get your airplane pointed EXACTLY north (so you're not constantly drifting off to one side). In addition, it takes a very long time to see what happens to say a FW-190A-8's weapons at 30,000 feet (takes awhile to climb that far).

Perhaps it would be possible to somehow add an auto setting to make your plane fly perfectly north? As well as the ability to start out at some pre-set altitude? Offline-only for both settings would be fine of course

J_A_B

hitech · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2002, 12:39:47 PM »

Once again JAB you would be producing false results if a perfect North was implemented. Orignaly I put the target the direcrection the plane was headed. This created small errors do the target actualy moving with the recoil effects of the plane, hence where the bullets landed changed. We would have the same problem with letting the auto control the plane to a N heading.

It would create small inputs into the flight model to compensate for the recoils, hence it would not produce the same patern as your hand would.

J_A_B · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2002, 12:57:39 PM »

But if there was an auto-heading switch, you wouldn't HAVE to use it

My thought was I'd want the "auto north" to line up before firing and save a lot of time, then do the actual gun testing under manual control. When I play with my convergence settings I usually have to spend several minutes trying to perfectly "line up" the plane before firing, and it's really tedious.

The question is, is such a feature worth taking the time to program? I'd venture that it isn't, at least not right now.

J_A_B

Bullethead · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2002, 10:18:01 PM »

HT-

Thanks for taking the time to consider this.

I was thinking of the plane on blocks because that's how they did it in real life. I figured it would add some realism, including the lack of the various situational dynamics. IOW, you'd get what the real guys got and have to draw your own conclusions.

OTOH, doing it in flight as we have to do now wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so time-consuming to use. To experiment at different alts, you have to take the time to climb all the way up there. To experiment with different speeds, you have to level off and wait to build that speed. And you have to keep playing with your course and altitude to stay on target, especially as you varry the range. Set the target far out there and you have to be higher, etc.

So maybe the best thing would be to allow you to enter your speed and alt and POOF, there you are flying along under those conditions. From inside the plane, you can shoot. If you go to an external view, you can adjust your convergence in flight. What do you think?

Bullethead · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2002, 10:27:43 PM »

hazed- said:

Quote

fantastic page bullethead. thank you very much for the time it must have taken to test and make up that website.

Its added to my 'favourites' and its extremely usefull.

Hehehe, I'm surprised you found it, considering the URL changed a couple weeks back without my being informed and I only thought to change it in my profile here when I saw your post

Hell, probably 1/2 the links are dead now, too.

I'm even more surprised you find it useful. Geez, I wrote all that crap years ago when I was a trainer, before AW entered its death throes and planes still bled E. I need to update it for AH I guess, but I figure I'll save that until I get good enough at AH to be considered relevant

eskimo2 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2002, 09:17:37 AM »

If you want to get to altitude quickly offline, add an updraft.
A 120 mph updarft gets a plane up to 30k very fast.

Another solution would be for someone to make a minimal map with spawn points in the air at high alt... if that's possible. IE spawn at 35k and dive down to 30 k to get speed and level flight.

Will that work?

eskimo

Bullethead · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2002, 05:40:49 PM »

Good ideas Eskimo. Maybe somebody can make a stair-step mountain with fields every 1k or so up the side. Hmmm, now I've got an excuse to d/l the map editor on a dial-up

hazed- · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2002, 06:22:25 PM »

bullethead sorry mate didnt read anything but those pictures of all the bullet drop over distance is excellent for quick reference for where to aim and how high over distance. i never knwe nik cannon drops so much, now i'll use that to improve aim with this aircraft.
Mg151/20mm im well used to but other guns i just guess

now i dont have to

Bullethead · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2002, 10:54:32 AM »

hazed- said:

Quote

bullethead sorry mate didnt read anything but those pictures of all the bullet drop over distance is excellent for quick reference for where to aim and how high over distance.

Oh, that's not my page

You mean HaMmeR's page