Author Topic: maneuvering speeds  (Read 384 times)

Offline McQ

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maneuvering speeds
« on: March 23, 2002, 06:46:34 PM »
HI
 Can anyone tell me what the "vertical maneuvering speed" is?
 Is it the lowest speed I can go over the top in a loop?
  Thnx
   
        McQ

Offline Andy Bush

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Vertical Maneuvering Speed
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2002, 10:04:13 PM »
McQ

I've never heard this term before. And I can't think of an application where it would make much sense.

Why?

Too many variables...weight, altitude, configuration, objective, etc, to make this term mean anything in BFM.

Andy

Offline McQ

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maneuvering speeds
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2002, 11:36:35 PM »
HI Andy.
 
 Shaw talks about it in a chapter on energy fighting. He refers to it a lot.( Index of his book p.428).I'm just interested what it is.

Offline FLS

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maneuvering speeds
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2002, 01:21:11 AM »
McQ

For a loop it's the speed you need at the start of a loop in order to complete it rather than the speed at the top of the loop.

It's not simply your minimum loop entry speed  since you might have other maneuvers in mind like a barrel roll.


--)-FLS----
Musketeers

Offline Andy Bush

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Term vs Concept
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2002, 05:47:24 AM »
McQ

Ahhh...I thought you were looking for a specific term, such as "corner velocity"...where the term refers to a specific number that is based upon certain parameters.

I think what Shaw is referring to is a "concept" rather than a specific number...and he does so in reference to "energy" maneuvering.

What he is saying is that a successful energy maneuver is dependent on two things...your energy state and the energy state of the adversary. Let's take a vertical zoom for example.

How much "energy" (speed) will you need to "outzoom" an adversary? Depends on the adversary and the start conditions. Generally speaking, a Vietnam era F-4 pilot might expect to outperform a MiG-17 in the vertical but would consider himself relatively equal against a MiG-21. Therefore, his "vertical maneuvering speed" may well be quite different depending on adversary type...and also will be totally dependent on the type of maneuver in mind. An example of this is a simple zoom vs a vertical rolling scissors (the scissors requires more end game G in the reversal, thus more initial energy).

So he is saying that a pilot should have enough smash before he begins a vertical maneuver, and that value depends on the maneuver type and adversary. Note that he does not give any numbers as such because he is speaking in conceptual terms only.

How does this apply to AH? It means the sim pilot should have a good feel for the particular aircraft he is flying. Given a fuel load, speed, and altitude, he should know ahead of time how much vertical potential he has as compared to the bandit.

Seems simplistic to say, but that is all Shaw is referring to...know your plane and its capabilities when it comes to energy retention with the nose pointed "up".

Andy

Offline McQ

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maneuvering speeds
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2002, 07:17:42 AM »
HI

 Now it all make sense to me. Thnx a bunch guys.
  By the way do you guys ever sleep? LOL.  !S!


             McQ