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Author Topic: Buffeting  (Read 277 times)

Offline BigCrate

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Buffeting
« on: April 04, 2002, 11:00:58 AM »
As stalling speed is approached, the center section stalls 1st with
NOTICEABLE SHAKING OF THE AIRPLANE and the ailerons stay unstalled and effective.

In either power on or power off stalls with flaps and landing gear up, the airplane "mushes" strait foward in a well controlled stall. With flaps and gear down, there appears to be a slight tendency for one wing to drop, however there is no tendency to spin.
Under these conditions, the nose drops slightly and, as the speed increases, the wing will come up.

This is from a Pilot's flight operating manual for P-38H, P-38J-5,
and F-5B-1 printed in Sep. 25 1943.

Really all I care about is the 1st part.  
One ?

Why isn't buffeting modeled in AH????

I would like to have buffeting modeled and get rid of the stall buzzer. The stall buzzer doesn't do very much for me. It tells me I might stall but I don't know when it will happen. Really to me the stall buzzer was a waste of programming. I don't know if the planes we fly had a stall buzzer.. I know that the planes buffeted and i think the pilot flew more by feel of his airplane and not by some stall buzzer.

So why isn't buffeting modeled in AH????

Cw
=Twin Engined Devils=
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Offline BenDover

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Buffeting
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2002, 11:47:02 AM »
in a way....it is, but only on force feedback sticks, but for some reason i never feel it:confused:
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Offline DmdNexus

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Buffeting
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2002, 12:48:44 PM »
My fuzy head sort of remembers that the stall horn was invented in the early 1920's.

Were these equiped on military aircraft....
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Offline BigCrate

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Buffeting
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2002, 03:13:52 PM »
Nexus so what your telling me is.. That no plane buffets when pulling Gs at med. to low speeds??? I'm sorry I can't believe that..
If you are pulling a fair amount of gs at 200mph the plane is gonna shake or something along those lines. The plane doesn't stay solid as a rock then just spins with no warning. Accelerated
stalls aren't even modeled. Accelerated stalls in AH are just spin rolls which turn into spins if not caught in time. Though I do believe that some planes snap rolled when pulling to many Gs
but the 38 shouldn't be one of them. I'm not saying the 38 shouldn't be the gentlest plane in AH in a stall its not. Just saying the stall performance of every plane shold be looked at again and buffeting modeled.

One more ?

Why doesn't the P-38 "mush" when in a accelerated stall???

Yall start posting more about this i feel like debating some

Cw
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Offline Puck

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Buffeting
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2002, 04:32:01 PM »
The seat of my pants is generally planted in a Herman Miller Aeron when I'm flying AH.  I'm not entirely sure how HiTech, or any programmer uber or not, is going to get my chair to buffet when approaching a stall.

I've learned to use the horn and the way the a/c handles to judge how close I am to the stall limit.  Some times the P38 I fly mushes, some times it rolls, some times it disintigrates.  Usually the disintigration has nothing to do with the stall horn, though.  :D

I guess I'm missing the point of your post.  Since we _can't_ fly by feel we need other cues to tell us how the aircraft is performing.  I find the stall horn, historically accurate or not, accomplishes that goal well enough.
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//c coad  c coad run  run coad run
main (){char _[]={"S~||(iuv{nkx%K9Y$hzhhd\x0c"},__
,___=1;for(__=___>>___;__<((___<<___<<___<<___<<___
)+(___<<___<<___<<___)-___);__+=___)putchar((_[__
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Offline BenDover

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Buffeting
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2002, 05:20:17 PM »
hey, most boxed sims don't have anything to indicate a stall, or i'm pushing it too hard, most of the time i end up dead stick and think, "CRAP!":(
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Offline spitfiremkv

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Buffeting
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2002, 05:49:00 PM »
you can easily feel the loss of control effectiveness when approaching stall. buffet could be simulated  visually,by shaking the cockpit a bit. I don't know how else buffeting could be modelled for sticks that don't have force feedback since there's no way the gamer can detect small changes in the attitude of the airplane or small displacements.
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Offline BigCrate

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Buffeting
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2002, 01:22:20 AM »
Yeah shaking of the cockpit is what I mean by buffeting in AH. heheheh wish we had forcefeed back chairs :). AW modeled buffeting just wndering why HTC didn't model it. If buffeting did ever get modeled it would even up the turn performance on some planes. And make stall fighting just that much more harder. Because in AW when ya got slow and trying to pull Gs the buffeting was so bad you couldn't turn the plane worth a damn. And torque would become more of a pain of buffeting with was modeled. Or atleast i think so.

Cw
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Offline Montezuma

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Buffeting
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2002, 02:21:46 AM »
Buffeting near the edge of a stall was also a sound effect in AW, I don't know if that is realistic or not.
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Offline MadBirdCZ

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Buffeting
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2002, 04:08:24 AM »
The buzzer in AH indicates just a dangerous AOA... and on force feedback its also followed by a quite significant shake...
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Offline Citabria

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Buffeting
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2002, 04:49:15 AM »
you need snefens stall buffet sound for the stall sound

its great sounds  awsome and authentic too.
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Offline Qnm

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Snefens stall sound
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2002, 06:14:56 AM »
Citabria, could you post a link to it?
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Offline BigCrate

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Buffeting
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2002, 10:53:59 AM »
Hmmmmmm I don't use sound but the stall buzzer. AH doesn't agree with the computer I use so. I have turned as much crap off as I can. When I flew AW I couldn't use sound because my MS sidewinder stick didn't work together for some reason.  Citabria
does that stall buffet sound help you judge stalls and spins better?? And Madbird I don't have a forcefeed back stick.
Maybe we could keep the stall buzzer and HTC could model in buffeting. Since the stall buzzer indicates very high AoA and if buffeting was modeled that would be a stall warning. Would be the buzzer and buffeting be true for WW2 planes?? I guess what I'm saying is the buzzer doesn't give fine points it just saids you theres a chance you will stall but it doesn't really give me a warning as to when I'm gonna stall.

Cw
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Offline lord dolf vader

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Buffeting
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2002, 01:04:35 PM »
799 dollar friggin desk chair puck? jesus criste it ought to buffet and give you a bj for that . toejam that is two weeks drunk in mexico lol.


just had to say that
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Offline Puck

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Buffeting
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2002, 01:27:13 PM »
*blush*

Yeah, well.  I have one at work, and I kinda got used to it.  

:rolleyes:
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//c coad  c coad run  run coad run
main (){char _[]={"S~||(iuv{nkx%K9Y$hzhhd\x0c"},__
,___=1;for(__=___>>___;__<((___<<___<<___<<___<<___
)+(___<<___<<___<<___)-___);__+=___)putchar((_[__
])+(__/((___<<___)+___))-((___&
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