Author Topic: Leave the MA alone (Read 685 times)

Octavius · « **Reply #15 on:** August 01, 2001, 11:28:00 PM »

Wow! Who's going to be the first to flame Hornet? lol Hornet you cant go wrong with a post like that, Nice job

oct

deSelys · « **Reply #16 on:** August 02, 2001, 04:23:00 AM »

Hornet, <S>.

Now I agree completely with you.

It will be a pleasure to be shot down by you this tour!

de Selys
Airman
332nd Flying Mongrels

Ghosth · « **Reply #17 on:** August 02, 2001, 06:31:00 AM »

I think the Norse had it best when they described Valhalla. The Valkries would swoop down over the battlefield, pick up a true warrior and wisk him away. There his days would be spent in combat, and his nights in feasting & storytelling.

Looked at in that way the Main certainly is a fighter pilots heaven. No death, no fear of the flames as your plane augers down.

Good post Hornet!

The cool thing about it all is that HT does keep his thumb firmly planted on the pulse of this community. While maintaining a very clear vision of what is & what isn't good for gameplay.

lazs1 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 02, 2001, 08:25:00 AM »

second post in the threae is a winner too hornet...

Oddly.... it sounds a little different when I say it. something I can't quite out my finger on.. probluy the spelling.
lazs

deSelys · « **Reply #19 on:** August 03, 2001, 02:19:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs1:
second post in the threae is a winner too hornet...

Oddly.... it sounds a little different when I say it. something I can't quite out my finger on.. probluy the spelling.
lazs

I'ts not your spelling...You were just pushing forward completely different ideas. Remember when you wanted bombers removed or field capture made impossible in the MA??

de Selys

[ 08-03-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]

Fester' · « **Reply #20 on:** August 03, 2001, 04:06:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by deSelys:

I'ts not your spelling...You were just pushing forward completely different ideas. Remember when you wanted bombers removed or field capture made impossible in the MA??

de Selys

ah the vaunted Lazs arena where everything remains the same

lazs1 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 03, 2001, 08:05:00 AM »

bombers don't have to be removed just take away their bombs and guns. Failing that... give em realistic targets and gunnery (including bomb accuracy and effect).

field capture... I have said make it easier with a lot of fields so that it is worthwhile and adds to the action or make it harder to simpley close the fighter operations. HTC has done the latter so things are pretty decent right now. I still think fighters should be able to come up till the field is completely closed but we are in pretty good shape right now.

If you prefer "realism" then we could have revetments for a hundred ( planes scattered around and when there were no more planes in the revetments then none could take off. regardless...

The MA needs to be a place where a person with 30-40 min can get into a fite or 3 that isn't too lopsided. I look at the kills per time stat to see how the arena is doing personally.
lazs

hblair · « **Reply #22 on:** August 03, 2001, 03:54:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hornet:
It must be the Warbirds influence, but there seems to be a large push in AH to turn the MA into an ongoing scenario. In my opinion, that's a pipe dream. Unless you have 1 life to live and are flying under orders with a flight of guys depending on you to do your job, we're all just dweebs running on the hamster wheel.

This recent talk of killing dar and icons in the MA really concerns me. It seems like an effort to turn the MA into something its not. If there is enough people that want this, I think its best that HTC open up a HA, put the no dar, no icons, RPS etc. in that arena.

Nice post.

I don't want to turn the Main Arena into an Historical Arena, but I do want to see some kind of concessions made to reduce the information you get on your radar screen.

Point #1:
Here's a hypothetical situation (happens all the time in the main arena) I'm flying along in friendly territory at 15,000 ft. I look to my level 2 o'clock, I see 2 cons, I tap ESC, I look at my clipboard radar, it's showing one baddie, one friendly. hmmm, I hit ESC again to lose my map, I point the nose of my plane at one of the cons, tap ESC again to pull up my clipboard, I use my brackets to zoom all the way in, my lil plane on the clipboard is pointed at the red dot, tap ESC to lose the clipboard again. Now I know the dot in the sky that my nose is pointing to is a bad guy, and I haven't even gotten an icon yet!

Point #2:
One of your countrymen get the wonderful idea to run a mission to bomb the enemy HQ. You are 100 miles from it. You have 6-8 B17's hit the runway to roll on their bombing mission. The second they hit the runway, they are on enemy radar (they haven't even left the fargin ground). The enemy sees the huge sector bars, puts 2 and 2 together and know they have an HQ raid to intercept. So as the B17's are lumbering along at 5,000 ft, enemy fighters are coming in hot. And you know what? They aint got a snowballs chance of making it to their target. This happens a lot. I've seen it many times.

Hornet, how many missions have you led in the main arena? That is a well written post you've got there, but how well rounded is your experience here? I don't mean that in a scathing way, but there's a lot of things to consider. I love to furball, I run a lot of missions, I do some bombing, and I think we need something done to the radar.

I'm for no in-flight radar. I don't think we'll get that, so I'll have to settle for some concessions, if that's what we get.

Bodhi · « **Reply #23 on:** August 03, 2001, 09:24:00 PM »

WTFG Hornet, Proud of ya bro!

deSelys · « **Reply #24 on:** August 04, 2001, 05:44:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs1:
I agree that the MA should be a fun place to get in a couple of action filled sorties in your 40 min or so. I wouldn't listen to much to the flabby vets on this board. I really doubt that HTC will do much to hurt getting into the action in the MA.

Ok MA should be a fun place for fighters but...

Quote

Originally posted by lazs1:

bombers don't have to be removed just take away their bombs and guns. Failing that... give em realistic targets and gunnery (including bomb accuracy and effect).

...the MA has to be realistic for bombers??

All this is in the same short thread? WTG, Lazs...

Go get a cold shower and some sleep.

de Selys
Airman
332nd Flying Mongrels

[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]

Creamo · « **Reply #25 on:** August 04, 2001, 06:17:00 AM »

HB, no inflight radar is a 9-5 American time possibility, yet still not a MA good idea.

If you had to look at the map offpeak without cons, it would be the "King vs. King" boring chess match WWIIOL in all it's realism is, BORING.

Things change fast in the MA, and if it was a primetime scenario of sorts, which it isn't, it would still be not what you want. The fog of war is the bore of war.

Sorry.

lazs1 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 04, 2001, 08:50:00 AM »

hblair.. point one. so what if you know which plane is the enemy at 15k i mean how realistic is it for 3 individuals to be at 16k hunting each other anyway? You still have to kill him... dar doesn't do it for you. Ohh... I get it... you guys can't "sneak up" on each other.. sheesh.

point two.. who cares about missions. they waste a lot of resources that could be better used to make big furballs and kill fields that could be used for getting into the action. The only "good" mission is one to take an enemy field that then puts you closer to the fite otherwise.... why bother?

deselys... get a grip.. I don't advocate the bombs as used on fighters either. fix the bombs and sights. I don't advocate that pilots should be able to switch to gunner posititon on single engine planes either. gunnery should be the same for all planes caliber for caliber.

What I see is a huge map with a bunch of guys happily fiting between 2 very unimportant close fields out of many and... A LONE bomber comes over at 10-20k and bombs the fighter hangers and either dies or wanders off.. Why should one no skill attention starved dweeb be able to spoil it for so many? Airfields are not realistic targets for bombers in any case.
lazs

[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: lazs1 ]

hblair · « **Reply #27 on:** August 04, 2001, 10:19:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs1:
point two.. who cares about missions. they waste a lot of resources that could be better used to make big furballs and kill fields that could be used for getting into the action. The only "good" mission is one to take an enemy field that then puts you closer to the fite otherwise.... why bother?

This is why your opinion doesn't mean much, you are a one dimensional pilot. You have never used the mission planner lazs, sorry, but you don't know squat about half of what's being discussed here. Being a furballer is just fine. But being a furballer and pretending you know about how bombers, jabos, etc. should be used in the game is a joke.

deSelys · « **Reply #28 on:** August 04, 2001, 01:59:00 PM »

Hblair, thanks. You're right on the spot.

From now on, I'll stop reacting to Lazs1 posts (although it will be darn hard...). It just ain't worth the energy. The guy is exclusively focused on his field of interest, egocentric to the extreme, and won't ever make the effort to understand others points of view.

Lazs1, I hope you'll find your furballer paradise someday...outside AH if possible.

de Selys
Airman
332nd Flying Mongrels

[ 08-04-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]

Hornet · « **Reply #29 on:** August 04, 2001, 02:26:00 PM »

Hblair,

Thanks for your post, it was one of the few instances amongst the multiple threads on this topic where I've seen someone make an argument against radar from a Gameplay perspective and not under the banner of historical accuracy or realism.

It may sound like semantics, but that was, and remains the critical point I was trying to make. Making changes to the radar - or any facet of the MA - in the name of historical accuracy will always be an exercise in frustration because the character and foundation of the arena is not built (flight models and ballistics aside) with historical accuracy in mind.

Regarding the two points you brought up on how the current radar setup affects gameplay:

The dot dar...The majority of my time is spent in the P51B. I believe the dot dar hurts e-fighters more than the strict furballers, pulling up the kneeboard can spoil a nice bounce.

But I do not see the e-fighters of AH really suffering. I get a fair share of bounces for kills. The 'heads up' warning the dot dar offers to the Spit5 and 202 guys may be a slight annoyance to the Doras and 51D's of the arena. But considering the fact that a lot of people feel the MA is already too fast, its an annoyance that at least attempts to offer some parity for the early war guys.

The second issue is a tricky one. I spend my time in fighters, but the buff guys gotta be able to compete as well. But they should still have to compete. AH is meant to be difficult wouldn't you agree? Now a feat like killing HQ in fighter terms would be at least a large handful of kills. The success rate of HQ runs should be low, just like the fighter guys do not expect a 5+ K/S. I think introducing a new avenue for the buff guys to display their talent, like no bardar under 500ft is a good compromise that will make gameplay more exciting for both buffs and their interceptors.

But I am glad the debate has turned towards weighing the merits of gameplay adjustments. I think it will yield much better results than a blind crusade to bring realism to the MA will. Just knocking out radar is not the answer, if for no other reason than the simple fact that the non-North America prime-time players will have a very difficult time finding a fight within a given window of time.