Most unrealistic aspect of Aces High.

[Vermillion]

jbroey, have you even fired a real gun in your life Even then have you ever fired a gun at something other than paper targets?

Because while I notice that your trying to sound like you know alot about ballistics and weaponry, but your just showing your ignorance.

Take your average .22 caliber rifle out to a field somewhere and shoot at a coffee can with it. Fire a couple hundred rounds at one hundred yards and tell me how many bounce off.  And then realize that a heavy machine gun round or a 20mm cannon round literally has thousands of times the force.  

Even rifle caliber rounds such as the 7.62 NATO (effectively the same as the .30 caliber machine gun round) will punch thru an engine block of most cars.  How do I know? I've done it.  A .50 caliber round will go thru both sides of armored cars.  And I won't even get into 20mm AP rounds.  And FYI, even that very small .22 caliber round is lethal up to several miles.

Now go study what an airplane is made of, yup thats right, Aluminum.  Very thin aluminum.  In fact you can punch thru the skin of most aircraft with a screw driver or knife easier than you can that coffee can.  Even the frames of aircraft were stressed steel tubing, which wouldn't deflect rounds except in very extreme cases and would still heavily damage the structure.

Aircraft are very delicate machines.

Armor you say? Go check a diagram on aircraft armor and you will see that very little area on an aircraft is armored.  I can provide several if you don't have any handy.  Usually just the pilots seatback, the forward viewscreen, portions of the firewall, and maybe small especially vulnerable area's such as the oil cooler and the 30mm ammo bin.  Not much at all, and usually its not thick enough to stop HMG rounds and higher (.50's and up).

Show me guncamera footage of rounds bouncing off (and if you think you find some, watch closer, because most likely its chunks of plane coming off).

Just because IL2 does it, doesn't mean its real.  

I've tried to keep this discussion simple, but if you'd rather we can pull out ballistic coefficents and other physical characteristics, force equations, and Finite Element Analysis simulations.

You see.... Aircraft guns, ballistics, and lethality are a hobby of mine.  I'm no expert like Tony Williams who posts here regularly (author of the book "Rapid Fire"), but I do know enough to call roadkill when I see it.

[Toad]

So now you are saying it's the ICONS that make it too simple to hit a moving target "at those ranges"?

First, it was "ballistically impossible", which you now agree is a totally incorrect statement.

Then it was it should be "near impossible" to hit a moving target at those ranges for some reason you have failed to provide.

Because I think everyone familiar with these guns knows that the projectiles will easily travel 1000 yards and more, arriving with enough energy to do serious damage to WW2 aircraft.

Now, the explanation is shoved off on to Tac's discussion of Icons, which most of us understand as this is the not the first time he's made it.

The first line of Tac's quoted statement is "Its not the guns, its the laser range finder icon. "

So, do I now understand correctly that it is the ICONS to which you attribute the ease of hitting a moving target?

You now agree that "it's not the guns"? Or did Tac not say what you really mean?

Of course, you've now added the point that you do not believe that AH models the angle of impact of a round or, if it does so, does not modify "damage" when considering various angles of impact.

Do I understand your argument yet?

Thanks.

[Glasses]

I myself don't think it's the bullet that had bad ballistics Toad but I think the problem with AH is that the tracer round has almost the same trajectory as the bullet meaning a tracer round for a POny will reach 1.2k ranges or more before it dissapears. I say this enlight of what I read in several books stating that tracer rounds had considerably worse ballistics than  the bullet itself.

They had to aim above what they wanted to hit even in straight and level flight because although the tracer  round itself gave you a vague idea of where the rounds were going they were not as reliable as the pilot being properly trained in gunnery. That's the main reasons why bullets in AH seem laser like for those other aicraft.

[Don]

Hmmm Realism, where does one start?
Well I guess the most unrealistic thing I have seen in AH so far is the constant clamor for more realism.
Face it, this is a game/sim; it aint real. Ballistics? The bullets aren't real
Gunnery? Hell if the arena is in hyper lag mode, you won't hit the side of a barn
Wouldn't it be nice to have all of the players get behind HT and support his efforts to get a new T3 line (or whatever it is) so we can play the game without weird things happening which affect gameplay.

Unrealistic? Hehe, spawn points and kamikaze dweebs who continue to spawn on a field in an Ostie which can't be killed unless you drop 2k worth of ordnance on it and annoy me as I take off. Hehe, he will then respawn to do it again.

Whats the point?

[MadBirdCZ]

Hey Ammo you tosser! This is how you should do your thread hijacking!

Wasnt this post about Trains and climb-grades?

[Don]

Vermillion:

In the case of the IL2, I believe it was the only WW2 a/c armored as it was. Hence the nickname...the flying tank. The pilot was seated in a steel tub type fixture in the plane, largely because the plane was used primarily as an attack a/c specifically for use against tanks. Now this was low level work and so armored to protect the pilot against small arms fire and low level AA fire.
If IL2 models richochets, perhaps it is a bit overmodeled because, if hit in any other part of the plane, debris should come off of it.

[Rude]

At least Nath plays  AH...for that, he is entitled to speak his mind.

On the other hand, jbroey must be suffering from Aces High envy...a common affliction causing disconnected and feverish speech, often giving off the impression to others that not only does he feel his own beloved IL2 is insufficient in meeting his simming needs, the afflicted also commonly speaks in ways resembling BIG FARTING SOUNDS.

Jbroey.....

Go play your superior sim and save us the self-rightous babble....if IL2 was as wonderful as you claim, AH would not have 400+ players online everyday.

Bottom line here....we don't care what you and IL2 are up to...just go have fun and grant us the same priviledge.

[Roscoroo]

dont forget to mention that alot of ww2 planes were still made of cloth .. yes cloth and wood  .

[AKSWulfe]

In denial? Of what? That Il-2 simply fudges the richochets? Nevermind the fact that they are only a very insignificant portion of a gunnery model, why do you think Il-2s gunnery model is so much better?

I want a real answer, no "it feels" or "it looks" or "it has richochets"... I want you to answer in technical terms... otherwise it's just a bunch of crap.

Roscoroo: Very few WWII planes were made of cloth AND wood. The Hurricane is the only plane I know of that is made of cloth AND wood... the other planes had wood structures or cloth control surfaces... but for the most part, after 1941 all cloth control surfaces were replaced with metal.
-SW

[MadBirdCZ]

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Roscoroo: Very few WWII planes were made of cloth AND wood. The Hurricane is the only plane I know of that is made of cloth AND wood... the other planes had wood structures or cloth control surfaces... but for the most part, after 1941 all cloth control surfaces were replaced with metal.
-SW

Vickers Wellington? Wasnt it cloth covered?

[AKSWulfe]

Very well could be MadBird, I don't know much about bombers... especially British ones- except for the Mosquito and Lancaster.
-SW

[spitfiremkv]

you can see a plane in the sky starting from five miles if you have good vision-which is not probably not the case with Aces High players
now,is the distance in AH measured in feet or yards? I thought it was feet and now people say yards. Also, although i did register hits from close to 1k, they weren't doing much damage.
So whoever said that the way hit power is modelled is unrealistic obviously doesn't know what they're talking about.
Plain and clear...
Come on ppl...

[Toad]

I've seen lots of different planes from over five miles away, particularly at higher altitudes.

[MadBirdCZ]

Originally posted by spitfiremkv
Also, although i did register hits from close to 1k, they weren't doing much damage.

Seems like you have never been sprayed at D1.2k by a C-Hog or a Jug Man, it hurts

[Vermillion]

If you guys are getting hit at 1.2k, you must either have real bad connects (ie the other guy see's you much closer), or your turning on autolevel because you think your safe and making yourself an easy target

As long as your not flying straight and level, its almost impossible (I've never been hit over 800) to hit anything at all.

And Don, even the vaunted IL2's armor was not proof against more than shell fragments and rifle caliber rounds.  HMG's and light cannons will defeat most any armor that a period aircraft could reasonabley carry. In other words, don't bring up modern planes such as the A10.