Author Topic: Combat theatre..a failure??  (Read 1336 times)

Offline Durr

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Combat theatre..a failure??
« Reply #75 on: April 10, 2002, 02:27:07 PM »
I dont think that that is the answer.  I dont really like the idea.  If you are going to do that, why not just have separate arenas, one a CT for early war, one for mid war, one for late war etc.  The answer is obvious, if you split up the current CT crowd even further you would only have a tiny handful  of people, if any,  in each of those arenas.  If you had the same map, but with sections for pre, mid, and late war, all that would accomplish is to split up the few people that are playing into different areas of the map.  The CT as it is now, usually only has action in one or two focused areas.  For example,  in the "fire in the sky" setup, which is playing now, the allies usually are all in the same area trying to take one Japanese base.  The Japanese side, naturally gravitates towards that base to defend it.  So usually, all 12-20 people that are online are in the same area.  At least this has been the case when I have played, which is mostly at night on the weekends.  A split map would split up those people with a few in the late war section, a few in the early war section etc.  

I dont consider the CT a failure, in fact I much prefer it to the MA most of the time.  I still play in the MA plenty too, since it is fun as well.  However, I prefer the more historical nature of the CT (just always get this guilty feeling when I shoot at a B-17 from a P-51 lol).  I do wish that more people played the CT, it would be nice if we had at least 30-40 people online most of the time.  I dont advocate forcing it on the MA though.  Let people play where they want to play.  I do think that there are a lot of people in the MA that would like the CT better though if they gave it a try.  

The CT needs some slight tweaking that in my opinion would probably increase the numbers at least a little.  The different setups each week are an excellent start and I have really enjoyed them.  However, I think that slightly smaller maps would be better, and I am happy to see the announcement that some are forthcoming.  I also wish there was a way to completely eliminate the 3rd country from the map, and redesignate the sides as Allied, and Axis instead of Rooks/Knights/Bishops etc.  The CT should make every effort to stay historically accurate within reason.  I dont think that the BoB setups should have field capture enabled, and there should be a way to remove the CVs from the BoB map.  On the other hand, if its a scenario set on the Eastern front, field capture should be enabled.  I think the type of person that likes to play in the CT is easily annoyed by small unrealisms, I know I am.  Its not a big deal but it makes it a lot more enjoyable for me.  I know that most people dont feel this way and thats fine.  I am just grateful that HTC provides a CT for those of us that like a little more realism.  I know its just a game and it will never be completely realistic but the closer it is to realistic the better I like it, thats just the way I am.  

I know I know, I am a nerd, but I have always been this way.  Even when I was a kid, I was fanatical about realism when we were playing.  One time I got in trouble with my parents because some of my cousins and I were playing soldier, and we were pretending it was the Civil War.  We only had a few toy guns that were civil war era enough to suit me, so we ended up being one gun short.  We had a rifle that was bolt action, but I refused to allow it, since they didnt have bolt actions then!  My cousin complained and my parents made me allow him to use the bolt action.  They told me to "pretend" it was a muzzleloader.  The very thought!  I could pretend that it was 1863 and that we were surrounded by 1000s of imaginary soldiers but not that a toy rifle was a muzzleloader! lol
I was probably only about 12 or 13 at the time, and you can see the old realism streak is just as strong today, 15 years later.   :)

What a geek huh.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #76 on: April 10, 2002, 03:03:56 PM »
ya know durr... I am just curious..  really.  

How is it that one type of "realism" weighs so much more heavily to you than another?   I mean, plane substitutions and fantasy maps and what if scenarios don't seem to bother you but fighting a 51 against a B17 does?

As for "area" it is hoped I believe that with more choice, more people.    Changing setups all the time seems to please you but for some CT aficianados this is a bad thing.   Any fight that does not involve a 190 or a 109 or a pee 51 or whatever is one to simply avoid.   An area arena would give these folks a 24/7 place to fly if they wished.   I really don't know how it would shoke out numbers wise in the CT but if CT folk can side balance then they could certainly "area" balance".   Perhaps during low numbers hours some areas would be deserted..  no big deal.
lazs

Offline Durr

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Combat theatre..a failure??
« Reply #77 on: April 10, 2002, 03:21:54 PM »
Actually I dont really like plane substitutions either, especially when they arent necessary, like the substitution of the C.202 for the Ki-43 in the current setup.  I understand that in some scenarios it is necessary to substitute the C-47 for Ju-52 or something so that the Axis can have a transport but why allow the C.202?  It didnt end up being that big of a deal of course since nobody was using it.  

I also prefer historical maps like Battle of Britain, Battle of Midway (when we get the planes for it of course), and so on. I like what-if scenarios though sometimes.  In fact, like I said, I still log plenty of time in the MA just because it is plain fun.  One of my favorite books about WW2 airplanes is by Captain Eric Brown.  He has a book called Duels in the Sky that compares aircraft against each other.  He rates planes against each other and I used to always think it would be interesting if there were a simulation where you could test a Spitfire against a P-51 for example, and see which one is better.  Here in AH we have that in the MA.  For most of my playing time, though, I prefer the historical matchups, being the history and realism fan that I am.  

Once again, do not construe anything that I say as me trying to impose my style on anybody else, since I recognize that I am in a very small minority.  I am just weighing in with my opinion.  And again,  I like the fact that the CT gives me the option of an alternative to the MA.  It would make me really sad to see the CT go away.   I just wish that there were enough people that liked the CT enough that I wouldnt have to be forced to playin the MA most of the time simply becuase there arent ANY players in the CT.  Like right now,  I just logged off and the number in the CT was exactly 0.  I had fun in the MA though, and I look forward to the weekend when there will be enough people in the CT to play.

Offline eskimo2

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Combat theatre..a failure??
« Reply #78 on: April 10, 2002, 03:58:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fariz


Eskimo, that is what I do :) Come to CT, play for 30 minutes, borred, go away. I will give it more tries, may be it will change. :)

Fariz


Fariz,
Try this, every time your about to log into the MA, log into the CT first.  Spend 1 or 2 minutes looking for a good sustained fight.  If you don't see one go to the main.  This is what I often do.

See ya in both arenas,

eskimo

Offline Sabre

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« Reply #79 on: April 10, 2002, 04:46:14 PM »
Durr: Actually, I never enabled the C202 in the CT this go around.  It may be listed in the MOTD though; I don't recall editing it out when I uploaded it.  The only subs are the ground vehicles (Japanese build the DC-3 under license before Dec 7, and continued to produce them, as I recall).  Otherwise, all the aircraft represented in "Fire in the Sky" flew against each other (or at least were in theater together) at one time or another, though possibly as earlier or later varients.  The great thing about having two arenas is you can choose to fly in either, as the mood strikes you.  

I just don't understand why that seems to bother some people.  Some insist on ridiculing the CT, those who play there, and those that support it as a worthwhile option for some paying customers.  It's almost as if they have some personal stake in trying to turn people off of it and make it fail.  It's like, even though they have what they want, they can't be happy if someone else does too.  It's kind of like the whole tax cut debate in the US between liberals and conservative.  Conservatives put forth a tax cut that benefits all tax payers, but liberals attack it because "the rich benefit more from it than the poor."  Hence, no one gets a tax cut.  Dumb!


That's why I started the other thread, "The CT is a success because...", to counter those that for whatever reason want it to fail so terrible badly, and figure if they say it's a failure often enough it will magically come true.   Am I a tiny bit defensive about it? Heck yeah!  A goodly number of people have put work into the CT or supported it with their patronage.  So what if we want to get on the BBS and let the world know we're happy about it and having a good time.  Having a choice between two great options is worth celebrating about.  I'm sorry some don't feel that way.  Life must be very unfulfilling for them.

Sabre
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline Seeker

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Combat theatre..a failure??
« Reply #80 on: April 10, 2002, 06:21:39 PM »
"I just don't understand why that seems to bother some people. Some insist on ridiculing the CT, those who play there, and those that support it as a worthwhile option for some paying customers"

Jealousy and exasperation.

Jealousy, because each and every one of us *knows* what's good for every one else; and no one will give us an arena to prove it.

Exasperation, because we know best and you won't listen. Every one of us.

Solution - instead of re-inventing the wheel and trying to see how many you can attract, start with a proven sucsess (the MA), and see how few you drive away with every subsequent step along the way to your goal.

Same view. Different end of the telescope.

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #81 on: April 10, 2002, 06:37:40 PM »
Warning!
LazsTard Alert!  
LazsTard Alert!
This thread is being tardified.and hijacked by a LazsHole-LazsTard.
All value and intelligent thought is being smothered and redirected into mindless-meaningless-tard-blather.  

You may now resume an intelligent meaningful discussion.

That is all.

eskimo

Offline Seeker

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Combat theatre..a failure??
« Reply #82 on: April 10, 2002, 06:47:35 PM »
"Warning!
LazsTard Alert"

Missed you in Sicily, Eskimo.

Could have used you undoubted organisational skillz and situational awareness. There was a whole arena set up just the way you like it begging for a leader.

Some one who really knows what the players want.

Offline pbirmingham

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Combat theatre..a failure??
« Reply #83 on: April 10, 2002, 11:19:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Having a CT is better than not having one.


Which is my take on it.  I've flown CT at times, and it's just fine, but most of my time is logged in the MA.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #84 on: April 11, 2002, 08:33:32 AM »
durr... yes, i see the problem.  in the CT there are a lot of guys who have a lot of different ideas of what realism is and how much realism they are willing to sacrafice in order to have parity and variety and good gameplay.   I thnk sabre kinda skews the real picture tho... He acts as tho a group of kind hearted souls all got together to help give everyone a little more choice in AH.   That they have been harrassed and ridiculed for no good reason and just want to help...That is true to a certain extent but.... he leaves out the fact that most of those souls were the most vitriholic and mean spirited players ever...   Constantly complaining about the MA...  Some still do take snide shots at the MA and effect an air of superiority.   In the CT they continue to fight amongst themselves even tho they are a very small number..  Imagine the complaining if they had 100 or more in there on a regular basis?

I am a fan of WWII and the era.   It was a very important time and facinating to me but......  I read the book.   I know how it came out and why.   I am not into blasphemous and lame re creations.   On the other hand.... I love firearms and prop planes and machinery in general.   Just like those pilots in WWII I have allways wondered how a Hog would do against a Spit or a 190 or a lag.  I want to see how these planes do against each other.   The combinations in a fight/furball are allmost infinite.   The CT can't compete in that respect.   It can't offer me much.   It can't let me even compete in the same plane as my enemy.    In the MA I can fly with my squaddies no matter what their favorite plane is...  How can the CT compete with that?  
lazs

Offline Arfann

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« Reply #85 on: April 11, 2002, 09:18:07 AM »
lazs- "It can't offer me much. It can't let me even compete in the same plane as my enemy. In the MA I can fly with my squaddies no matter what their favorite plane is... How can the CT compete with that? "

It doesn't try to compete with that. It simply offers an alternative to those of us who are bored toejamless with the  FuRbAlLiNg, KiLlStEaLiNg, LeMmInGs  in the MA, ( not everyone in MA fits this description, just enough to keep things un-fun) and who appreciate historic matchups. This is obviously not your cuppa, so why do you feel compelled to post on this subject at all?

Offline hblair

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Combat theatre..a failure??
« Reply #86 on: April 11, 2002, 09:39:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2 4/10/02
I am a fan of WWII and the era.   It was a very important time and facinating to me but......  I read the book.   I know how it came out and why.   I am not into blasphemous and lame re creations



Quote
Originally posted by lazs2 3/26/02

I would most likely set up a map with a 1/3 sector "channel" between "england" and the rest. fields would be about 1/2 or a little more from their oppossite number across the "channel".

fields would be destroyed but not captured (nod to strat guys) and when all fields but one were down the war would be over.

MA radar.

MA or slightly shorter icons.

No CV's until a6m2 and F4f are created.

this is how I would do a BOB in the CT using the CT guidlines od allied vs axis. I believe that it would be the simplest setup yet.

Questions?
lazs



Yeah, why give your idea of a good CT setup if, it is, in your words just a "blasphemous and lame" recreation ?

This is what I'm talking about laz, your story takes all kinds of curves and meanders as you make it up. Why not just say what you mean to start with? Either you like the CT or you don't, or does your opinion usually fluctuate like that?

Offline K West

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« Reply #87 on: April 11, 2002, 10:03:34 AM »
"a "blasphemous and lame" recreation !"   Created by sordid homersectuals and feelthy fernicators who're all gonna bUrN in hell for it!   --  Reverended Lazs    (circa 1995-2002)

  Westy


edited: tater. tater tater. I wasn't supposed to post again till June. My 'bad' :(
« Last Edit: April 11, 2002, 11:54:43 AM by K West »

Offline LePaul

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« Reply #88 on: April 11, 2002, 11:14:30 AM »
Well, tried the CT last night.

Jumped over to A25 to see what was up.  Apparently some GVs were rolling into the base and thought I'd jump in.  Went into the hangar and saw a whopping 2 aircraft to chose from.  P-47D11 and a B26, and if you had perks, a P-38.

Groan.

Flew one sortie and was maced by an M16.  Oh if I coulda had my P47 D-30   :(

Asked about the 1 plane thing on Channel One, and it was pointed out we also have a CV, so that adds 3 more airplanes.  :rolleyes:

Dunno guys...

A few other guys (of the 17 there at 10pm EST) mentioned to "come back next week" when we have a new map and more planes.

Seems to be a consistent theme in there.  Come in, shake head, and asked to come in again sometime later  :)

In all fairness, I will, to see the new map.  But whoever dreamed up what's in there now is doing the CT a huge disservice.

Offline Creamo

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« Reply #89 on: April 11, 2002, 11:42:20 AM »
Sweet thread.