Author Topic: What's happening in Jenin?  (Read 2577 times)

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18771
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2002, 06:58:35 AM »
Palestine and their buddies caused the "Occupation" in the first place!
Israel didn't ask to take the land away from anyone. It was given to them.  Then in order not to be invaded they had to launch a pre-emptive strike ('67-68?). The only way to control the Palestine thugs was/is to have the buffer zone.

Now a bus sucide bombing :(

As stated, Israel isn't doing anything America wouldn't do if put in the same situation

Staga, you've made in plain now that you side with the terrorists -
God have mercy on your soul
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2002, 08:10:11 AM »
"Palestine and their buddies caused the "Occupation" in the first place!
Israel didn't ask to take the land away from anyone. It was given to them. Then in order not to be invaded they had to launch a pre-emptive strike ('67-68?). The only way to control the Palestine thugs was/is to have the buffer zone."
-heheheh... sure. Sounds little naive thought :D

"Now a bus sucide bombing"
-Yep and shelling villages and refugee camps full of civilians with howitzers and missiles launched from helicopters etc.

"Staga, you've made in plain now that you side with the terrorists -
God have mercy on your soul"
-I'm against violence but if someone is occupying my country I sure would use all possible ways to make invaders life as hard as possible. Oh and I'm quite sure you would do same.
French resistance movement did same when germany was occupying France and IMHO those were heroes. Same thing with Tito's partisans in former Jugoslavia when they fought against nazi-germany. Same happened also in Greece, Norway and propably all countries nazies were occupying in WW2.

Looks like you have problems to understand word "Terrorist":
terrorist adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon); "terrorist activity" n : a radical who employs terror as a political weapon.
terrorism n : the systematic use of violence as a means to intimidate or coerce societies or governments.
Hmm let's put this one too:
Refugee \Ref`u*gee"\ (r?f`?*j?"), n. [F. réfugié, fr. se réfugier to take refuge. See Refuge, n.] 1. One who flees to a shelter, or place of safety.

As you can see word terrorist is not a synonym for words "refugee", "Lebanese" or "Palestinian". btw word Terrorism fits nicely to word "Israel" too doesn't it?

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2002, 08:22:35 AM »
btw Eagler your country has been supporting Terrorists earlier too: First one which came to my mind is Nicaragua and Contra rebels.
Quote
The American political scandal which has become known as the Iran-Contra Affair occurred in 1985 and 1986. First of all, high-ranking members of the Reagan administration secretly sold weapons to Iran, in itself a severe violation of US laws. Then, they gave the profits from the $30 million worth of weapons to the Nicaraguan Contra rebels, thus violating another ruling of Congress. Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, who was the military aide to the National Security Council, was the chief negotiator of these operations and reported first to National Security Advisor Robert C. McFarlane and then to his successor, Vice Admiral John M. Poindexter. The sales to Iran were initially made at Israel's suggestion in order to improve their relationship with Iran and to free some American hostages who were being held by pro-Iranian terrorists in Lebanon. North was the man who set up the entire network for distributing this support to the Contras in the form of ships, airplanes and bank accounts.

Everything might have come off secretly except for the fact that a Lebanese magazine mentioned that the US had sold some arms to Iran. An investigation ensued and Attorney General Edwin Meese announced that the US had in fact sent millions of dollars to the Contras from the sales, thus violating Congress' 1984 Boland Ammendment which expressly prohibited supporting the Contras. Even more investigations followed by the Tower Commission and the Congressional Joint Investigative Committee and they collected 0.3 million documents as well as much more live evidence. In November of 1987, the committee reported that Ronald Reagan was in fact ultimately responsible for his administration's actions but that there was no evidence that he had known what has going on. The administrators responsible for the affair where convicted, but these decisions were subsequently reversed. When George Bush became president, he issued pardons to many who had been associated with the affair. The final report came in 1994 from independent prosecutor Lawrence E. Walsh who concluded that there was no evidence that Ronald Reagan had broken the law, but based on circumstantial evidence it was likely that Reagan had participated in or known about the operation."

Eagler looks like you are good christian. Does these quotes sound familiar?
"But what I tell you is this: Do not set yourself against the man who wrongs you. If someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn and offer him your left."
and...
"Let whosoever is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."

Smile and world smiles with you :)

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18771
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2002, 08:25:31 AM »
Staga

Please point out an instance when the French Resistance blew up German women and children during WWII ...

They had the balls to strike military targets, many of which were targeted by their allies.

I'd think they'd roll over in their graves with your comparison

Palestine doesn't want peace.
They want Israel dead.
They want America dead.

I say if their actions are a precursor to WW3, I want them & their supporters dead first ... if peace by any means, other than the elimination of Israel and America, is possible of course I'd prefer that - unlike your Pals.
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Samm

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2002, 08:29:10 AM »
No staga it doesn't, damn how can someone be so stupid . Your comparison of the contrasandanistas with PLO terrorist cells is sickening .
« Last Edit: April 10, 2002, 08:33:05 AM by Samm »

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2002, 08:31:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
Palestine doesn't want peace.
They want Israel dead.
They want America dead.


Hmm is there a poll or study made in Palestine or where did you get this info?

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18771
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2002, 08:33:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
All I can say is WTG !

Maybe Palestinians found out that it is IDF which is occupying their land and not Israeli civilians :)


Staga
To call me a "Christian" would be a stretch :)
I believe in God and that murder of any kind is wrong.
I am not the one that said "WTG" to the killing of 12/13 Israeli soldiers who in my book were doing their duty protecting their countrymen in an action best described as self defense.

What are the alternatives? Israel pack up and leave?
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18771
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2002, 08:34:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga


Hmm is there a poll or study made in Palestine or where did you get this info?


My eyes and ears
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2002, 08:41:39 AM »
Luke 6:27-36
Love your enemies; do good to those who hate you; bless those who curse you; pray for those who treat you spitefully. When a man hits you on the cheek, offer him the other cheek too; when a man takes your coat, let him have your shirt as well. Give to everyone who asks you; when a man takes what is yours, do not demand it back. Treat others as you would like them to treat you. If you love only those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. Again, if you do good only to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do as much. And if you lend only where you expect to be repaid, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to each other to be repaid in full. But you must love your enemies and do good; and lend without expecting any return; and you will have a rich reward: you will be sons of the Most High, because he himself is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be compassionate as your Father is compassionate.

Sorry Eagler but what you've seen and heard doesn't count as a scientific fact. Good try thought :)

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2002, 08:44:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler

What are the alternatives? Israel pack up and leave?


Yep and search for blueprints of berlin wall.

Offline Nashwan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2002, 08:44:10 AM »
Quote
Palestine doesn't want peace.
They want Israel dead.
They want America dead.

There are millions of Palestinians.

Very few of them are terrorists.

Most give tacit support to the terrorists at the moment.

If they had a homeland, free of Israeli occupation, without continued Israel settlement, less of them would support terrorism.

Give them something better to aim for and many would turn away from terrorism.

When enough of them feel they have a good enough deal, they will crack down on the terrorists themselves.

So far, the only deal they have been offered is a country split up into 4 blocks by Israeli roadblocks and settlements, with no control over outside borders.

Offer them something better and there might be peace. Keep attacking them and there will continue to be war.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18771
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2002, 09:05:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan

There are millions of Palestinians.

Very few of them are terrorists.

Most give tacit support to the terrorists at the moment.

If they had a homeland, free of Israeli occupation, without continued Israel settlement, less of them would support terrorism.

Give them something better to aim for and many would turn away from terrorism.

When enough of them feel they have a good enough deal, they will crack down on the terrorists themselves.

So far, the only deal they have been offered is a country split up into 4 blocks by Israeli roadblocks and settlements, with no control over outside borders.

Offer them something better and there might be peace. Keep attacking them and there will continue to be war.


Didn't they (Arafat) just turn down the best deal in a long time end of last year?
Do you think Arafat wants peace? Were would he be once the "war" is gone? Dead, out the door, America? Nope, without their "struggle" I think many if not most of the Pals would be lost without any idea how to act as they have been doing it so long they know no difference..

Staga
Pls forward your Christian messages to ur Pals - 8 years of Catholic school and Mass every Sunday for 20 years, I know them by heart...
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2002, 09:07:37 AM »
Israel has the right to protect its citizens from terrorist attacks. If some think that protection is a little overboard, let them walk a mile in Israeli shoes.

It is not Israel but the arabs who are in an adversarial relationship. Here's a hypothetical for you:
If the arabs put down their guns and wanted to live in peace, the Jews would do the same. However, if the Jews put down their guns and wanted to live in peace, the arabs would kill them all and throw their bodies into the sea.

Israel is simply defending itself. Any nation is entitled to that.

The palestinians have shown, over and over, that the only peace they will accept is to have it all. To prove that, just look at the Camp David summit and the rhetoric that comes from pal leaders. Anything other than getting it all is unacceptable to the palestinian people.

Israel offered about 97% of the west bank, most of gaza and part of Jerusalem and it was turned down. You can't get better than that. So get real. The pals will NEVER accept any peace offer from the Israelis. They are looking to drive the Jews out by violence and will accept nothing less.

Barak, in desperation, offered the Palestinians just about everything they wanted, except sole control over Jerusalem. For that they suggested some kind of joint arrangement. Barak caught hell from a lot of Israelis over that language, and Sharon rejected it, IIRC. I thought it was a major concession from the Israelis, but it turned out to be the Palestinians who said no.

And as far as Jerusalem is concerned, it is the indisputable capital of Israel. Yet it is totally open to all faiths, including Islam. When Jordan held Jerusalem until 1967, Jews were not allowed. Israel will never take that chance again, especially with the corrupt, arab loving UN.

The real problem I fear is that Arafat really isn't in control of the Palestinains any more. He can't compromise, because of the outrageous promises he's made to his people.

And Staga...you are a sick f/%#

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2002, 09:10:06 AM »
Joint Statement given in Jerusalem: April 7, 2002
with Amnesty International and the International Commission of Jurists  


Ladies and Gentlemen,
Ordinary people are the main victims of the tragic conflict that has unfolded here over the past eighteen months. Day after day the news is of people killed, or maimed for life, and of homes and livelihoods destroyed. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the International Commission of Jurists want to send a clear, unambiguous message to all parties to this conflict, and to the international community. Stop the deliberate targeting of civilians and other persons protected by international humanitarian law. Stop actions that harm them. Immediately deploy international monitors to protect the human rights of Palestinians and Israelis.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
As a fully-fledged State and as an Occupying Power, Israel has clear obligations under international law, and in particular under the Fourth Geneva Convention. This Convention provides for security measures that can be taken to protect itself, but these do not include the excesses now undertaken by the Israeli government. We strongly deplore actions by the state of Israel that harm persons protected by international humanitarian law. These include prolonged curfews with severe restrictions on the movement of people and access for medical personnel; intensified collective punishments; wanton damage to homes, cars and civilian property; looting and theft in the course of searches; and the coerced use of civilians to assist military operations. Such actions violate international standards and transcend any justification of military necessity.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has recently declared whole areas, such as Ramallah and Bethlehem, closed military zones, and impeded the entrance of outside observers, including journalists, human rights activists, government officials, United Nations representatives, and the International Committee of the Red Cross. The IDF has forcibly entered and ransacked the offices of human rights organizations such as al Haq and LAW. Both Palestinian and Israeli organizations have shown great determination in continuing to work under these circumstances, but it has been almost impossible to verify alarming reports about extra judicial executions, "liquidations" of "wanted" Palestinians, and use of lethal force against civilians and other persons protected by the Geneva Conventions.

As a result of the IDF military operations, hundreds of Palestinians have been arrested. The identities and whereabouts of detainees are not known, and the ICRC has not been allowed access to them, raising concerns about their conditions and treatment. Several released Palestinians have reported that, depending on the IDF unit guarding them, prisoners were at times beaten.

In entire cities and towns, ambulances and emergency medical services have ground to a halt. Medical workers and ambulances have been fired upon. The wounded have been denied access to medical treatment; Palestinians have been killed attempting to reach hospitals for routine medical care. Such abuses raise not simply humanitarian issues: they are serious violations of international humanitarian law.

Even in the face of this situation, we are appalled by an increase in the use of suicide bombers by armed Palestinian groups to attack Israeli civilians. Such deliberate attacks on civilians are absolutely prohibited by international humanitarian law. These actions tarnish the Palestinian cause and will not at all help the situation -they only increase the fear and mistrust of ordinary Israelis as well as adding to the suffering in the region. Over the past week there have also been increasing signs of a breakdown in law and order within Palestinian territories as well, including the street-killing of alleged collaborators with Israel.

All these violations must be stopped by those in a position to do so and perpetrators must be brought to justice.

In the face of such a human rights crisis, it is time for the international community to act. Our three human rights organizations welcome the proposal by Mary Robinson, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, that the UN Commission on Human Rights send an immediate mission to the area. We also repeat our call for international permanent presence to be dispatched to Israel and the Occupied territories to monitor the situation, restore respect for human rights and humanitarian law standards and to help protect civilians. The international community, and in particular the United States, should exert its utmost influence to ensure that both the state of Israel and the Palestinian Authority cooperate with and facilitate the work of these missions. The presence of international monitors does not absolve the relevant parties from their human rights responsibilities or obligations. On the contrary it should help enhance them.

Ladies and Gentlemen, civilian suffering is not inevitable in a time of war or occupation. Ordinary people should never become the target of those with arms. All our organizations have witnessed, documented, and reported a wanton disregard for the right to life over the past eighteen months. Such abuse must stop now. Those who commit such crimes must cease them. And the international community is morally, and legally, obliged to act to ensure respect for such basic humanitarian principles.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know some people doesn't care about Amnesty International etc but I agree with them. I also hope Mr.Powell's trip to middle east is succesfull.

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
What's happening in Jenin?
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2002, 09:14:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
And Staga...you are a sick f/%#


Just let it all out; Don't hold your anger my dear neighbour :)