Author Topic: What kind of framerate would you get from...  (Read 271 times)

Offline bloom25

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What kind of framerate would you get from...
« on: April 10, 2002, 01:51:01 AM »
http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?cid=70636
http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/sunfire15k/

They don't have the price for the absolute top of the line listed, but just look at the "large" on the first link:

It's only got:
72 900Mhz 64 bit SPARC processors (expandable to 106)
288 GB of ram (it can go over 512 GB, which would probably actually be enough for WWII online...)
and just 438 GB of disk space with a 172.8 GB/s transfer rate

(BTW:  EACH of those 72 processors is much more powerful than any desktop CPU available.  Each one has 8 MB of cache ram to boot.)

All this can be yours for the low, low price of $3,235,430.00!

My guess is that running AH totally in software you could probably push 100000 fps or so, but probably still would only get 10 fps or so over a smoking field. :D (j/k)

Offline Animal

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What kind of framerate would you get from...
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2002, 02:16:16 AM »
jeez..

could that thing can do real-time Final Fantasy style graphics?

I say in 15 years a powerful consumer gaming PC will have nearly the same performance ;)

Offline AKDejaVu

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What kind of framerate would you get from...
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2002, 09:05:34 AM »
That's quite a box... but I wonder just how long it will be before desktops are just as powerfull.;)

AKDejaVu

Offline Starbird

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What kind of framerate would you get from...
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2002, 09:15:43 AM »
nvidia and SGI already demonstrated realtime final fantasy graphics at siggraph last year I believe. (not sure of the location). They were 'only' getting 2 or 3 fps (might've been a bit more, dont remember now), but the output was fully rendered scenes form the movie.

Offline Vermillion

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What kind of framerate would you get from...
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2002, 03:36:21 PM »
Bloom, I'm not sure which processor that is (I didn't follow the link) but I work in a business where we do very high end meteorology & air pollution simulations on some very expensive equipment.

Traditionally, that was Sun, SGI, and DEC Alpha workstations (and even Cray mainframes if you had the money) with multiple processors.

These simulations are extremely floating point calculation  intensive.

However recently we (the trade as a whole) has been doing alot of testing of Linux systems usually running Athlon dual processor machines.

Processor for Processor, the Athlons (and Intel P4's) are benchmarking out faster than anything from Sun and as you know is quite a bit more inexpensive (usually by a factor of 10).

I just spent a week at a conference in Austin TX, where we discussed this issue in depth, and most of my industry is moving over to linux Beowulf clusters (or at the very least COW clusters), because the workstation class machine costs are just not worth it unless you have an application that ONLY runs in that particular flavor of Unix.

Right now the high end workstation manufacturers are just pricing themselves out of the market.

Offline bloom25

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What kind of framerate would you get from...
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2002, 05:47:17 PM »
It's tough to compare a Sparc, Alpha, or Pa-risc processor to a standard desktop PC processor.  Dual Athlons are a very powerful combination, but are only a 32 bit processor.  A sparc, alpha, or pa-risc are 64 bit processors.  There are some areas (working with very large, very small, or very high precision numbers) where a 32 bit processor just isn't good enough.  I'm not familiar with what exactly you are doing Vermillion, but I'm guessing that absolute precision is probably not that important.  Very rarely I have to run simulations which basically involve running the same calcuation on literally billions of data points.  (For example, when using Silvaco tools to calculate the voltages at as many points as possible within a 2d (or even worse 3d) mosfet transistor model.)  It's quite possible that this is flat out impossible on a 32 bit processor.  To even do a 64 bit floating point operation it takes many more clock cycles on an Athlon or P4 than on one of the 64 bit processors mentioned above.

Remember 32 bits means that you only have a range of 2^32 or 4294967296 possible results (answers).  64 bits gives you a range of 18446744073709551616.  You tell me which one is better for serious math.  It's also worth noting that should you need to deal with both positive and negative numbers you must sacrifice one bit to represent the sign.  [Either twos-complement or ones-complement format.]

AMD and Intel both know this.  Intel teamed up with HP recently to develop Itanium, which can do 64 bit operations and can also run x86 instructions (though performance suffers severely from doing so).  AMD is supposed to release "hammer" at the end of this year.  It takes a different approach and extends the x86 instruction set to be able to do 64 bit operations (called x86-64) while still maintaining the ability to to 32 bit opeations without resorting to any sort of software based emulation mode like Itanium must do.  That means it can run all current programs that can be run on a PC AND has the capability to do 64 bit operations with no loss in speed.  (It also has the ability to do them at the same time.  Itanium (at least the current version of it) cannot do this.)

There are good reasons not to do 64 bit unless it is necessary.  I won't go too far into this, because it would get very technical, but suffice it to say that building a "simple" CLA (carry lookahead adder) addition unit requires MANY MANY MANY more transistors than a 32 bit adder.  If you resort to the simpler CRA (carry ripple adder) a 64 bit adder is MUCH MUCH slower than the 32 bit equivilant.  The number of logic gates (each made of transistors) needed for each additional bit of a carry lookahead adder increases by the power of 2 if speed is of top priority.  (Notice I said MANY MANY MANY more. ;) )  If speed it less of a concern it still requires at least 2x as many gates (transistors) than a 32 bit model.  Similar tradeoffs exist for multiplication and divide units and registers.

Basically the manufacturing cost associated with a 64 bit processor are inherently much higher (larger die size, lower yield, more pins needed) than a 32 bit processor.