Author Topic: Tips for Avoiding Gang-Bang Fest.  (Read 411 times)

Offline 28sweep

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Tips for Avoiding Gang-Bang Fest.
« on: April 17, 2002, 07:41:47 AM »
I have read a couple of posts about the gang-banging going on
in the MA.  I still like the MA a lot and prefer to fly there but every
night I’m on the wrong end of the gang-bang like two or three times.  I have been flying the La-7 in order to avoid being a victim so often.  However, I find that if I get a bit low I still can’t run from diving Fw’s and P51’s etc.  So my question is: should I just avoid engaging when outnumber like 2 to 1 or something….I mean when u see a lot of con’s just run and fight somewhere else? Are there any general rules for running and avoiding a gang-bang ?  I mean like loitering around at a safe distance and evaluating the situation first before running/engaging.  I mean I try and evaluate the radar situation and all but that dosen't always work and oh ya-I find the radar to be wrong a lot?  Is that just me or does it fail a lot?  Any tips would be great.

Offline xHaMmeRx

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Tips for Avoiding Gang-Bang Fest.
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2002, 08:43:33 AM »
28sweep

The key is SA and patience.  If you are flying towards a horde on dar with a wingman and your first vis is a dot above you, chances are at least some of the others are high, too, which means you are too low.  If it's co-alt, you're still too low to take on significant numbers, but you might be able to make a pass through to see what's there, but only if you are confident that you can out run anything that is there.

If you start seeing the dots below you, then you are in a position to go on over and take a look.  From there, you start making passes on the highest bogie but don't follow it when it dives a way.  He's just trying to drag you lower.  Keep watch for the Spit or other good climbing plane that will be grabbing at the edge of vis range.  He's trying to get above you.  You've also got to watch your e-state so you don't finish a pass in a position to be caught.  With a little luck, you can at least harass them until help arrives.

If you're in a furball, work the edge instead of the middle.  Look for the bad guy trying to grab a little alt away from the furball.  Also, don't put yourself between the furball and the source of enemy reinforcement.

That's about it for now, but it's early and I haven't had caffeine yet.

HaMmeR
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Offline BigMax

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Tips for Avoiding Gang-Bang Fest.
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2002, 11:18:36 AM »
Good points Hammer,
Remember that getting gang banged is usually the result of poor SA or decision making prior to entering the fight.  Stay away from the high concentration of enemy planes... Grab altitude that suits your plane's strengths... And most importantly don't let yourself get drawn down into that "on the deck" stall fight that happens if you don't kill someone quickly.  Maintain your initiative by conserving your Energy.

--- The guy you are saddled up on is undoubtedly squealing like a little girl--- Don't let his buddies surprise you!

Offline gofaster

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Tips for Avoiding Gang-Bang Fest.
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2002, 11:40:25 AM »
Where others fear to go, I rush in!  

Don't be afraid of being outnumbered if you don't mind getting shot down after awhile.  If you want a lot of action, go ahead and dive into that furball, but just make sure you aren't going to get bounced by an enemy that's higher and faster than you before you have a chance to shoot at somebody.

One of my favorite things to do when I'm in a Mustang is find a concentration of enemy fighters and dive into and through them, trying to disrupt their alt-climbing and maybe even smoking one on my guns pass. At the very least, I'm causing Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt and might even drag one or two after me. Often, they're concentrated because they're on their way to cap my base, and by tying them up I'm allowing my countrymen to get some alt and engage them under more favorable conditions.  I sacrifice so that others may live! :p

If you want to survive this sort of encounter, you'll have to learn the fine art of defensive flying (and bar-room floor fighting) because eventually you're going to end up on the deck and, at best, the enemy will be co-alt or, at worst, above you.  A LaGG down low can be a fantastic weapon if the other guy is down low, too.  Know the strengths of your plane and you'll have more success.  You should be able to outmaneuver most of the other planes (except for the Spit, Zero, Hellcat, and such).  Learn the barrell-roll, the high-yo-yo, the horizontal scissors, and the art of yelling for help.  

Not much useful info in the above paragraphs, but I had a lot of fun typing them up! :rolleyes:

Offline Widewing

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Re: Tips for Avoiding Gang-Bang Fest.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2002, 12:32:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 28sweep
I have read a couple of posts about the gang-banging going on
in the MA.  I still like the MA a lot and prefer to fly there but every
night I’m on the wrong end of the gang-bang like two or three times.  I have been flying the La-7 in order to avoid being a victim so often.  However, I find that if I get a bit low I still can’t run from diving Fw’s and P51’s etc.  So my question is: should I just avoid engaging when outnumber like 2 to 1 or something….I mean when u see a lot of con’s just run and fight somewhere else? Are there any general rules for running and avoiding a gang-bang ?  I mean like loitering around at a safe distance and evaluating the situation first before running/engaging.  I mean I try and evaluate the radar situation and all but that dosen't always work and oh ya-I find the radar to be wrong a lot?  Is that just me or does it fail a lot?  Any tips would be great.


Hammer covered the basics of what you need to know, within his limited time window. I will discuss some of the details.

Flying alone is inherently dangerous. This is simply because of the numbers involved and the simple problem of not being able to monitor the location of every enemy. That is why one must plan carefully. As a general rule, if you can get above the enemy, do so. Altitude is important for several reasons.

1) To get to you, the enemy will deplete his energy.
2) You can convert altitude to speed.
3) Your presence often distracts the enemy, which can only help teammates already in the fight.
4) You have the option to pick your fight and the general circumstances of engagement.
5) Most gangbangs occur when you fly alone or get separated from friendly aircraft. Think of altitude as an invisible wingman. Remember, that group you are flying with may be a squad with different goals than you, and may be using a squad frequency to talk to each other. Therefore, you may find yourself in a fight alone as that group is heading somewhere else. Talk to those around you and find out if they are willing to work with you, before you commit to a fight.

Here's some rules regarding situations where you have the advantage of altitude.

1) Never surrender your advantage unless the potential rewards more than offset the risks.
2) Be aware that your advantage may evaporate at any time with the arrival of an enemy who is higher than you (assume that there is ALWAYS someone higher than you, and that they will eventually show up).
3) Plan your attack route and an egress route. You never want to exit a fight by flying away from teammates and towards the enemy or his base (or CV). Sometimes circumstances will dictate otherwise, but if you have the option, always exit towards friendly aircraft or bases.
4) Do not select a target so low that your best zoom climb still leaves you below the enemy horde.
5) There is no shame in being cautious.
6) Do not hurry your attack.
7) Control your speed as you dive. It is pointless to dive towards and enemy only to find that you're carrying too much speed to maneuver into firing position. Excessive speed can lead to collisions with the ground (or hills and mountains) or objects such as hangers or trees.
8) Avoid maneuvering so hard that you find yourself blacking out. It is very important not to lose sight of your opponent. If you are blacked-out, you may not be able to reacquire the enemy until you have lost any advantage, or worse, finding that your opponent has reversed the circumstances altogether.
9) Just because you are above everyone, this does not guaranty that someone can't climb up unseen and attack you from below. Frequently roll 90 degrees and observe below your aircraft.
10) Be especially careful if the sky is overcast. Enemy aircraft will often hide in the clouds.
11) Use caution when breaking out of an overcast. You may find yourself with unwanted company.
12) Just because you're at 20K, it doesn't mean that you can ignore flak. I have seen people killed at 22K by 5" naval guns.
 
My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: April 17, 2002, 12:38:34 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline dtango

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Tips for Avoiding Gang-Bang Fest.
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2002, 01:18:34 PM »
Good posts by all.   Just wanted to point out that as the replies to this post indicate there are those who like swarming furballs and those who don't.  I think it's wise to take the high road on the matter and not try to debate the merits of whether to furball or not to furball.  It really comes down to a matter of what you personally prefer.

BigMax- it's only "poor" SA or decision making if you are attempting to avoid the "gang-bang" vs. making the conscious choice to do so :).

28sweep- it appears that your preference is not to get mixed up in swarming furballs when the odds are against you.  Here is just some other pratical thoughts applying what Hammer, BigMax, and Widewing have mentioned that I use myself:

If a huge furball is going on over a field, I'll generally find a different base to take-off from.  I like to avoid the "furball" and instead gain alt and fly toward the nearest enemy field that is probably supplying the majority of enemy planes to the furball.  I then have the option to do several different things.  Option A- I can choose to engage enemy planes on the way to the furball.  If I do this I generally have a plan to "fight" my way back toward friendlies applying all the alt and SA points others have made.  Option B- I will loiter over the enemy airfield and attack aircraft who are in post take-off climb outs.  You have to be careful here since you're usually blowing a lot of altitude and using energy doing this which could leave you low and in enemy airspace.  Option C- I will setup a CAP between the furball and the enemy base and engage enemy fighters en-route to the furball and try and stick with a hard-deck so as not too blow my alt.

Again, all these "missions" I'll do applying all the various SA and energy mgmt rules of thumb the others have mentioned.  For me there isn't a formula in avoiding being gang-banged.  Instead it is more of an art in SA and decision making based on a mixture of my altitude, energy state, and nearby friendly aircraft all relative to the group of enemy planes.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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