Author Topic: Boroda...Operation Vittles (Read 990 times)

Boroda · « **Reply #15 on:** April 25, 2002, 12:18:01 PM »

Well, you accuse Soviet side of not letting "allies" build a military beach-head in the middle of the Soviet occupation zone?!

I really wonder why didn't they shoot down that "airlift" planes. Stalin indeed was the man of his word.

Deja - you missed the most annoying fact that I dismissed: USSR did have nuclear weapons in East Germany since 1950s, while Nikita said it didn't.

A colonel arresting a foreign citizen who takes pictures of a military convoy and handing him to civil authorities - it's definetly the most outragous violation of human rights.

Hehe, the best anecdote from my Grandad was when his commissar was a commander of a convoy with a nuke warhead, heading to meet the operational/tactical missile unit to fuel and arm them. He got lost. Probably took the wrong turn. No kidding.

midnight Target · « **Reply #16 on:** April 25, 2002, 12:20:26 PM »

Not accusing, just comparing viewpoints on history. The fact that Berlin was split, and that part of it remained part of West Germany is not in question. That was decided by Interallied treaty. (And I would like to hear more about the American expeditionary force during the Civil war in Russia, but lets do that on another thread.)

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"When the order of the Soviet Military Administration to close all rail traffic from the western zones went into effect at 6:00AM on the morning of June 24, 1948, the three western sectors of Berlin, with a civilian population of about 2,500,000 people, became dependent on reserve stocks and airlift replacements. It was one of the most ruthless efforts in modern times to use mass starvation for political coercion... "

Here is a link to the quoted site. This is a PBS site, hardly a jingoistic source for news or history.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #17 on:** April 25, 2002, 12:58:52 PM »

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Originally posted by Boroda Well, you accuse Soviet side of not letting "allies" build a military beach-head in the middle of the Soviet occupation zone?!

I don't believe anyone accused the U.S.S.R of doing that... afterall... we built one later anyways. I believe the soviets are being accused of trying to starve an entire city into submission...

I see very little room for defense on that point.

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I really wonder why didn't they shoot down that "airlift" planes. Stalin indeed was the man of his word.

LOL! Gonna go out on a limb and say they didn't shoot down the airlift planes because they weren't quite ready for WW3.

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Deja - you missed the most annoying fact that I dismissed: USSR did have nuclear weapons in East Germany since 1950s, while Nikita said it didn't.

Any idea why he had to say they didn't? Translate:

We are going to ask you a question to which we already know the answer. How well do you lie?

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A colonel arresting a foreign citizen who takes pictures of a military convoy and handing him to civil authorities - it's definetly the most outragous violation of human rights.

Where did this come from? Sounds to me like you were all ready to adress this issue before you even posted it.

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Hehe, the best anecdote from my Grandad was when his commissar was a commander of a convoy with a nuke warhead, heading to meet the operational/tactical missile unit to fuel and arm them. He got lost. Probably took the wrong turn. No kidding.

I'm sure very few people doubt this.

AKDejaVu

Animal · « **Reply #18 on:** April 25, 2002, 01:01:15 PM »

Stalin indeed was the man of his word.

LOLROFLESHAHAHHAHALMAOESTEMAR ICONQUECARAJOSECREE!!!!!!!!

Hangtime · « **Reply #19 on:** April 25, 2002, 01:30:28 PM »

Bah. Scurvy commie bastids tried to starve berlin into submission.

only the daring and determination of a very few voulenteer intrepid air transport pilots, tossin hershey bars out the windows on approach to templehof stymied the evil madman dictator stalin and his ravenining godless minions from raping and pilliging the entire half starved and bombed out city.

well.. that and SAC's threat of nuclear anniliation by waves of american b36's and b29's if the commie salamanders even nicked the paint on a transport bound for berlin..

did i hit all of borodas key knee-jerk retaliation flame words?

miko2d · « **Reply #20 on:** April 25, 2002, 02:06:28 PM »

Boroda: It wasn't in school history books, as well as many episodes of Civil war in Russia never appeared in the US school books.
The case of many episodes of russian Civil War supposedly missing from american history books (they are not - I checked and american history books on russian Civil War are quite complete, but I grant you the point about the school textbooks - about as much info as soviet history books had on US Civil War) is really because you just cannot fit everything in one book - as you've said.

The case of any mentioning of Berlin Airlift missing from any books available to the public in the Soviet Union was a censorship decision. After all what would they write? "Our attempt to starve the citizens of West Berlin into submission is being disrupted by the humanitarian airlift from the evil capitalists?

Boroda: Berlin was divided into occupation zones (extremely stupid from my POW - why let the "allies" control what we fought for?)...
So you are saying the allies were too hasty with opening the second front and supplying russians with 500,000 heavy trucks, food and other items - they apparently fough completely different unrelated war...
Your words are typical of rabid communust liberators of the time - whatever they capture is theirs. No consideration for little things like self-determination of germans or other nations soviets "fought for".

Midnight,
I guess my English was not up to the task to catch the nuance, sorry.
I hesitate to answer the question, but for you information, the existance of the Berlin Wall was justified by the need to prevent hostile incursions, infiltration of spies, assasins and saboteurs from West Berlin into the land of socialism.
Same justification was given for existance of extensive border guards (reporting to KGB rather then to military). We were raised on many stories of our border guards with their faithfull dogs catching capitalist spies carrying bombs and poison into the Soviet union every week. Never about them preventing soviet citizens from escaping communist paradise.

Also we celebrated the day when we overtook US in production of butter (little did we know that many americans switched frrom butter to healthier foods) and steel, though not in any consumer item made of steel.

miko

midnight Target · « **Reply #21 on:** April 25, 2002, 02:49:35 PM »

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Originally posted by miko2d

Midnight,
I guess my English was not up to the task to catch the nuance, sorry.
I hesitate to answer the question, but for you information, the existance of the Berlin Wall was justified by the need to prevent hostile incursions, infiltration of spies, assasins and saboteurs from West Berlin into the land of socialism.
Same justification was given for existance of extensive border guards (reporting to KGB rather then to military). We were raised on many stories of our border guards with their faithfull dogs catching capitalist spies carrying bombs and poison into the Soviet union every week. Never about them preventing soviet citizens from escaping communist paradise.

Also we celebrated the day when we overtook US in production of butter (little did we know that many americans switched frrom butter to healthier foods) and steel, though not in any consumer item made of steel.

miko

No apology needed miko, and thank you for the info. I honestly was not trying to pick a fight with anyone. I am curious about the spins put on different historical events by the various sides. Now that Russia is no longer in the business of hating our capitalistic guts maybe we can exchange these historical views.

For instance: Sputnik. America was stunned by the launch of Sputnik 1 and there was talk of the Russians building space platforms to rain nuclear destruction on us. The "space race" started out of this fear.

The "Space Race" - There is another one.....We heard we won.

Did anyone wonder why the guards on the wall were facing East?

I'm not looking for the truth...just the Soviet spin.

Dowding · « **Reply #22 on:** April 25, 2002, 03:01:41 PM »

I'm a communist.

And you never went to the moon either, you lying pig-dogs.

midnight Target · « **Reply #23 on:** April 25, 2002, 03:04:47 PM »

See...now.......we are learning here.

I would have thought pig-dog was one word instead of hyphenated. Thanks Dowdy

Dowding · « **Reply #24 on:** April 25, 2002, 03:12:40 PM »

I'd say 'your welcome'...

...but it wouldn't fit my...erm...idiom.

Capitalist scum that you are.

Hangtime · « **Reply #25 on:** April 25, 2002, 03:23:22 PM »

Damn... and all this time I thought we were 'lying running-dog capitalist lackey pigs'.

'capitalist scum' is just so.... ho-hum, yah know?

yah scurvy pinko!

SageFIN · « **Reply #26 on:** April 25, 2002, 04:10:56 PM »

Capitalist, socialist, whatnot. Don't you people know, that these days it's modern to be an anarchofeminist?

Dowding · « **Reply #27 on:** April 25, 2002, 05:36:45 PM »

You forgot the word 'decadent', Hangtime.

Never forget the decadence inherent in the system.

Hangtime · « **Reply #28 on:** April 25, 2002, 08:40:58 PM »

whoops. damme my eyes, but you are correct.

hmmmm... but where to fit it in?

would it be 'decadent lying running-dog capitalist lackey pigs'....

or 'lying running-dog decadent capitalist lackey pigs'

or 'lying running-dog capitalist lackey decadent pigs'

i dunno.. chit, i know it's all in the nuances, but it just don't seem to roll off the tounge right; yah know?

Maverick · « **Reply #29 on:** April 25, 2002, 10:03:21 PM »

Quite frankly, I think my version in this thread was FAR more believable than any of Boroda's here to date..