N1K2-J and its gears

[FDutchmn]

Gentlemen,

I have been wondering for quite some time about some claims made on the landing gears of the N1K2-J.  For example...

Blatantly borrowed from post by JoeCrip over in the Aces High General Discussion forum titled Can We Do Somthing About The N1K-2 J?
Well, there are a few important things that ARE NOT modeled on the AH N1k-2J.

1) The Unique Flap System
2) The Highly Unreliable Gear
3) The Unreliable Engine

If these things were modeled, not only would the N1k-2j be more realistic, but I think the numbers would decrease.

I first became familiar with ShidenKai (N1K2-J) when playing Air Warrior.  I did some research on it when questions came up about its 20mm cannons.

I first read about its peculiar history of its development from the seaplane Kyofu (N1K1) to the Shiden (N1K1-J) to the ShidenKai (N1K2-J).

On the landing gears, the Kyofu seaplane was a mid-cantilever plane. (is this the correct term to use? mid-cantilever for a plane with wings attached mid-way down the fuselage?)  This configuration was kept on the Shiden, which required long landing gears to keep its propellers off the ground.  When the ShidenKai was developed, the configuration was changed to make it a low-cantilever plane, thereby shortening this landing gear.
 
To compare the difference, please refer to these diagrams...



Sorry I forgot where I got these...  If you enlarge this, i see a difference in several feet.

The ShidenKai (N1K2-J) was further developed into a Carrier-borne plane and tests were successfully conducted on the last Aircraft Carrier, the Shinano, before the Shinano met her fate.

I have read pilots' accounts of having difficulty with the landing gears of the Shiden (N1K1-J), but not on the ShidenKai (N1K2-J).  My take is that the ShidenKai (N1K2-J) being a low-cantilever plane and having modified into a successful Carrier-borne plane, the problem with the landing gear that existed on the Shiden (N1K1-J) was fixed.

I am gonna go look for references myself... would anyone be familiar with this?

more to follow...

oh btw... I am in favor of addition the Automatic Combat Flaps on the N1K2-J  It had a mercury column attached to the pitot tube, and with the aid of electric switches on the mercury column, the flaps were lowered or raised.  This apparatus was placed in the cockpit within reach from the pilot seat as it was considered top secret.  The pilots were instructed to destroy it in case of a ditch.

On the reliability of the engine... well... if we are going to model that, I would have to ask to rate the reliability of all engines model on AH.  But, if the objective is to limit the number of the N1K2-J in the MA, then... forget it.

[Samm]

I've wondered about the autoflaps thing also. In pics of the n1k2 on the ground with engines off the flaps are allways fully exteded as if they are "powered down" . I also wonder if htc created the fm with the consideration of the autoflaps, just didn't model the graphics. But I doubt this since using the flaps manually in AH does make a difference .

[Tac]

I thought the Shinano was never flight operational. wasnt it a yamato-class converted to a carrier, and when it was almost finished (missing flight deck and air complement) it was sailed off to another port where they would finish her and stock her with her A/C complement.

A US sub sank her en-route.

On the n1k: Yes, put the autoflaps.

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Tac
I thought the Shinano was never flight operational. wasnt it a yamato-class converted to a carrier, and when it was almost finished (missing flight deck and air complement) it was sailed off to another port where they would finish her and stock her with her A/C complement.

A US sub sank her en-route.

On the n1k: Yes, put the autoflaps.

As far as I remember, I read it in a book called "Sentouki ShidenKai" (Fighter: The ShidenKai) by Y. Ikari, published in 1975.  I returned the book to the library so I cannot remember which page I read it off. (It was the time when I was doing some research for Mage for Air Warrior.)

They tested it in Tokyo Bay for the fear of attacks by USN.  The ShidenKai converted for the tests were the N1K3-A, with arrester hooks for carrier landings.  

I will research into the Shinano, hopefully shed some light into this.  I may have been mistaken about the actual CV used for the test.

[FDutchmn]

On the Shinano and the carrier version of the ShidenKai...

Nin did some research and I think it would be of interest to answer the question TAC raised a while ago.

ISBN4-7698-0671-X C0095  The Last Fighter: The ShidenKai by
Y. Ikari.

Mr. Ikari used to work for the Technology Research Institute of the Imperial Army. (not Navy)  He also helped restore the Shidenkai currently being displayed in the US. (dont know the details of which one...)

On page 266, it says on the first two days of the publicized test cruise of the Shinano, aircraft landing and takeoffs were experimented.  On the first day, the Zero and the Tenzan and other standard issue planes were tested.  On the second day, the ShidenKai was tested.

This information can also be confirmed on P79 of ISBN4-05-602064-7 History: Pacific War Series 24 by Gakken.

more to follow...

[Tac]

cool, so they did finish the flight deck. Wonder why they didnt stock her right there and then.. seems kinda stupid to send an empty CV to sea

[EDO43]

I love killin them just the way they are.   If it gets changed and less people fly it, I'll have to work harder at perk farming

[Widewing]

Originally posted by FDutchmn


As far as I remember, I read it in a book called "Sentouki ShidenKai" (Fighter: The ShidenKai) by Y. Ikari, published in 1975.  I returned the book to the library so I cannot remember which page I read it off. (It was the time when I was doing some research for Mage for Air Warrior.)

They tested it in Tokyo Bay for the fear of attacks by USN.  The ShidenKai converted for the tests were the N1K3-A, with arrester hooks for carrier landings.  

I will research into the Shinano, hopefully shed some light into this.  I may have been mistaken about the actual CV used for the test.

Shinano was the victim of the USS Archerfish. Ultimately, she was lost due to the lack of personnel trained and experienced in damage control. A properly trained crew would have saved the carrier as the damage was not terribly severe. However, either way she was out of the war.

Archerfish, which was submerged, was finding it impossible to a obtain a firing solution due to the Shinano's high speed and zig-zagging. However, at the critically wrong point, the carrier's captain altered course and placed his ship in the ideal location for Archerfish.

Better to be lucky than good.....

My regards,

Widewing

[Don]

>>Wonder why they didnt stock her right there and then.. seems kinda stupid to send an empty CV to sea <<

Near the end of the war; no planes nor pilots to fly them. Industries were practically all destroyed and fuel oil for their ships was at an ebb. Most important piece is the lack of trained pilots. Those who could fly were assigned to their Kamikaze squads which they wree fully committed to.

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Tac
cool, so they did finish the flight deck. Wonder why they didnt stock her right there and then.. seems kinda stupid to send an empty CV to sea

So what was the Shinano doing out there...

Ok, this is kinda out of scope from the thread I started, but it is a matter of interest, as seen in Imperial Japanese Navy Page

I am basing this information from what I read in ISBN4-7698-0454-7 C0372  "Nihon no Gunkan" (Japanese Warships) Vol 4 Aircraft Carriers II

There was a crash program to get the Shinano out to sea, especially after the Battle of Midway, where the IJN lost its carrier capabilities.

So stringent was the program that engineers made a mistake which caused an accident when filling up the dry dock where the Shinano being built.  The engineers were were working countless sleepless nights that they simply forgot to flood certain compartments in the Shinano, that she broke loose of the mooring in her dry dock... she obviously crashed into the wall, taking on water.

This is just to show you how desparate the IJN was to get her going.

On November 1, 1944, a B29 on a reconnaissance mission flew over Yokosuka Naval Base, taking photographs of the Shinano. (first time that this happened according to the book)  The IJN alarmed by this, decided to transfer the Shinano to Kure Naval Shipyard at the earliest possible time, as a risk assessment that Kure will offer better protection.

On November 19, the Shinano was completed.  (I think more like declared completed)  From this time the Shinano was officially made part of the 1st Fighter Squadron of the Navy.  Captain Abe was assigned.  I think that the ShidenKai was tested on the Shinano about this time.

The Shinano left Yokosuka on November 28 with a crew including engineers doing left over constructions (whatever that included) and with fifty Ohka (the Baka Bomb... now I am kinda glad that she sank... not that I don't feel anything for the nearly 1500 men who lost thier lives on the Shinano, but what the Ohka was for...)  

It implies in the book that the main cause of the Shinano sinking is the lack of experience of the crew, more than the left over construction.

TAC, I think this answers some of your questions...

If there are any others, please let me know.  I will do my best to fill in...

more to follow...

[FDutchmn]

Ok, I found the answer to the gear issue finally...

I have three books with me, which all agree with each other.  

Kawanishi N1K2-J gGeorgeh Shiden-Kai (ISBN4-499-22711-9)
ShidenKai and Its Data on Its 99 Mysteries (ISBN4-576-95141-6)
and
"Fighter: Shidenkai" by Y. Ikari, 1975

The landing gear mechanism differs between the N1K1-J and the N1K2-J because of the wing configuration just as I suspected.  

In Kawanishi N1K2-J gGeorgeh Shiden-Kai (ISBN4-499-22711-9), on page 41, its says:

With the conversion to the low-mounted wing, the design of the aircraft's gear was simplified and strengthened greatly from that of the Shiden, the weakness of which was one of that plane's greatest problems.

In ShidenKai and Its Data on Its 99 Mysteries (ISBN4-576-95141-6) on pages 230-231, it explains the two step mechanism of the Shiden's landing gear.  The landing gear with a length of 1886.5 millimeters when on the plane is resting on its three points, had to be stored in a well of a length of about 1700 millimeters.  Hydraulics were used to shorten the landing gear, then turned up into the well.  When extracting, it turned down and the enlengthened.  Initially it took 1 to 2minutes to store the landing gear.  On page 40, it says, on the ShidenKai used the same mechanism as the Zero made from the same company.  It took 6.2 seconds to store the gear.

Welp... so, this thing about the N1K2-J having problems with its gears is incorrect.   That's it for now...

Post Edit...

While it took 1 to 2 minutes to store the landing gear on the N1K1-J, this was improved to about 20seconds.