Author Topic: The B model Pony  (Read 796 times)

Offline Hangtime

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The B model Pony
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2001, 05:31:00 PM »
Must be me then. Thanks fer the input!

<S!>

Hang
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Offline sling322

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The B model Pony
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2001, 05:34:00 PM »
Sounds like all that time on the boat is messing with your head Hang.    So have you kicked the cat overboard yet?

Offline Soulyss

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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2001, 05:49:00 PM »
My initial reactions were similar Hang, but I just chalked it up to having greater/different expectations.  (Was really hopin for the 51B-15) It's still a fun ride but I honestly don't see anything that the B can do that the 4 gun D can't do just as well and the D has more ammo.  That being said I still like the B more just because I like the early model U.S. planes more can't wait for that razorback P47 either  
80th FS "Headhunters"
I blame mir.

Offline juzz

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The B model Pony
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2001, 01:10:00 AM »
1. Loaded with 75% fuel, the P-51B WEP climbrate is about 200fpm BELOW what the official chart shows.  

2. Even taking the above into account, the B still outclimbs the D between 10-18k and above 21k.  

3. According to the charts, the B is faster than the D between 13-19k(10mph+ at 16k) and above 26k(20mph+ at 29k).

Hopefully there will one day be a RAF Mustang Mk III in AH - which as well as having better visibility(Malcolm hood) than the standard B/C, it should also have the V-1650-7 engine as per the B-15/C-5 and P-51D/K.  

Offline Spatula

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The B model Pony
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2001, 01:47:00 AM »
As a self-confessed Mustang Dweeb i fly both the B and D models.

They both seem to be almost equal in kill performace with the D being slightly better due to its guns.
Tour 15 so far:
B Pony = 29:3 => ~9.9:1
D Pony = 25:2 => ~12.5:1

I notice the B seems to be slightly slower than D at most alts. Which is a shame, the B/C should be slightly faster. Accel seems roughly the same, turn maybe marginally better in the B. The B is still fun to fly cause it feels right, it feels like the tru-skool mustang pilots ride  

Spat.

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Offline Hangtime

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The B model Pony
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2001, 06:17:00 AM »
I tried the b again last night.. Zig kicked my butt flyin a P38.. I came back with a D and caught him in a 109.. turned the tables.

I guess I just like that big, flashy, heavy and trashy Supa-D.  

Hang


The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline wizzer

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The B model Pony
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2001, 07:32:00 PM »
Hangtime,

I have theory. The extra coats of paint make her heavy, and the overspray of the paint has clogged the gun barrels. At least my B has that affliction.  

wizzer

Offline Hangtime

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The B model Pony
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2001, 08:14:00 PM »
If they gave it a hood, doubled the tracer load, made it perform the way the thinner winged pony SHOULD at low altitude then maybe it'd be a little closer to what I hoped for... still the AH B is a nice bird and the AH B is a damn sight better than the WB's one was at first.. but this one's still lacking the performance boost at low alt.

Oh well.. we got what.. 4 109's and 4 FW's.. maybe we'll get a few more pony variants sometime soon. I'd like to try 'em all.  

I know I'm hoarding my perkies for the H.

 

Hang

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline wizzer

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The B model Pony
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2001, 08:21:00 PM »
LOL Hang, just tell me the next time you want me to be the set up man.

wizzer

Offline juzz

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The B model Pony
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2001, 10:49:00 PM »
What makes you think the P-51B should perform better at low altitude? It's V-1650-3 engine makes about 140HP less than the P-51D's V-1650-7 below 10k...

Offline sax

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The B model Pony
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2001, 11:58:00 PM »
I,ve tangled with a few b's in the D.

You just bleed thier "E" and they in trouble.

I don't think it is like what we it expected it to be.

Sax

Offline Hangtime

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The B model Pony
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2001, 05:04:00 PM »
Well Juzz, the -3 engine, while not uncommon among early B models was replaced by the -7 well before the end of the B's production run. Further, the -7 was in all C models.

Now while the -3 was arguably a better engine at high alt than the -7, it should be noted the B/C was a better PLANE in most respects than the D model by all accounts.

 
Quote
After the Mustang III aircraft had been delivered to England, the RAF decided that the hinged cockpit canopy offered too poor a view for European operations. A fairly major modification was made in which the original framed hinged hood was replaced by a bulged Perspex frameless canopy that slid to the rear on rails. This canopy gave the pilot much more room and the huge goldfish bowl afforded a good view almost straight down or directly to the rear. This hood was manufactured and fitted by the British corporation R. Malcolm & Co., and came to be known as the "Malcolm Hood". This hood was fitted to most RAF Mustang IIIs, and many USAAF Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51B/C fighters received this modification as well...[/b]

...However, many pilots regarded the Malcolm-hooded P-51B/C as the best Mustang of the entire series. It was lighter, faster, and had crisper handling than the later bubble-hooded P-51D and actually had a better all-round view. Its primary weakness, however, was in its armament--only four rather than six guns, which often proved prone to jamming. Some of the modifications applied to the P-51D to improve the ammunition feed were later retrofitted into P-51B/Cs, which made their guns less prone to jamming. With modified guns and a Malcolm hood, the P-51B/C was arguably a better fighter than the P-51D, with better visibility, lower weight, and without the structural problems which afflicted the D. Its departure characteristics were also more benign. (j bauger)

This is the plane I expected. It's unfortunately not what we got.   The one we got has no discernable advantage in handling, has no noticeable edge in accel, seems to miss the numbers on climb and speed, has no hood and falls apart just like the D does when hit.

Now, in HTC's defense, the IS a pretty good early model B... (except for the benign handling and durability) but it ain't the plane of legend. Maybe next time out we'll get a P51C or Mustang III.

 
Quote
Specification of P-51C-10-NT:

One 1695 hp Packard Merlin V-1650-7 twelve cylinder Vee liquid-cooled engine. Maximum speed was 395 mph at 5000 feet, 417 mph at 10,000 feet, 426 mph at 20,000 feet, 439 mph at 25,000 feet, 435 mph at 30,000 feet.

... but thanks for asking Juzz.  

Hang

 


 
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline fluffy

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The B model Pony
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2001, 08:46:00 PM »
How about a P51B - or Mustang III like those used by 268 Squadron RAF? They were a low level photo reconnaissance squadron and some planes had the engines de-rated for peak performance at around 4k feet.  They were armed, according to a local author and RCAF veteran R.G.Brown in his book 'On The Edge', with four 20mm Hispano cannons! As he engaged in a number of encounters with 190s, and strafing missions, I guess we can believe he knew what he was firing.  Can you imagine the furor that a 4x20mm p51b would cause in the MA???  According to him the planes were definitely faster than our AH p51b, but again, they were tweaked for low level photo and ground attack intrusions.  I recommend the book by the way, ISBN 1-896182-87-9, General Store Publishing House.

Offline J_A_B

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The B model Pony
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2001, 08:54:00 PM »
My own experience with the AH P-51B suggests the opposite of what Hangtime seems to experience.

I can tell no noticible difference in firepower between the 4-gun B and the 6-gun D; both gunsets are adequate but not incredible.

For me at least, the B is MUCH more capable than a D in a dogfight. I think it handles a LOT better than the D.

The "D" seems a little faster and climbs a hair better.  I have yet to be involved in a combat where this slight difference actually mattered.  The main advantage of the "D" is visibility.

These two planes are almost all I fly.  I'll grab a "B" for base defece and low-level fighting where its camo might be an advantage, and I'll take a "D" for just flying around the arena killing what I can.

The "B" is about what I expected; in fact it's a little better.  

J_A_B

Offline Hangtime

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The B model Pony
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2001, 09:19:00 PM »
Now I could be wrong... I'm just reporting my impressions based on limited experience in the B and I'm comparing that to my not-so limited experince with the D.

Since I ain't got a clue on how to proceed to an accurate and verifiable test program with the two planes, I must remain at the mercy of my lousy impressions.. which could easily be much jaundiced by just the poor view.. not being able to evaluate the other guys e state could very well be because I can't correctly evaluate my own...

I dunno, I wanna be wrong! Anbody got any test data?

Hang
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.