Author Topic: free-WB-weekend  (Read 1075 times)

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2002, 04:00:58 PM »
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Originally posted by Durr
Printed out maps (so I dont have to use the clibboard with its AWACs and GPS) and icons off in the CT have really made the game more fun for me, without getting in the way of anybody elses good time.  I recommend those that complain about these features to try it.


but then that wouldn't put everyone else at the same disadvantages as them... therefore no matter how more realistic or immersive it could possibly be, no one would dare put themselves at a disadvantage unless everyone else is at an equal disadvantage. I'm just sayin', if it only affects them (the ones complaining about the issue) and not everyone overall then they would never want it.


I wanted to reply to your idea about enlarging aircraft- this naturally brings more problems than it solves.

Aircraft are (let say) twice the size as in reality compared to everything else which is at scale sizes... this means that gunnery becomes two times as easy, because there's a much larger area to hit and this of course means that those fabled 1000 yard kills we always hear about will become reality instead of the myth they currently are.

Is there a solution? Icons, or a derivitive of that, (also makes sighting easier for people with bad eye sight- this is a game and thus there needs to be equal footing for everyone playing) are pretty much as good as we're gonna get for now.

However, in the future I'd say icons will become less of an issue- with CPU & graphics processors becoming more powerful this invites a lot of interesting things that can be modelled to give a much better visual representation of the real world than is currently modelled.

For example- lighting on aircraft at greater ranges, also the ability to make reflections off aicraft skin (as opposed to the current lighting that just applies light to the aircraft without really an reflection off the skin- like the sun hitting a spoon and producing that bright flash of light), then there's the atmospheric stuff... in the real world the further an object is away from you the more obscured it becomes from the particles in the air... so at great ranges (20,000ft) the ground wouldn't be as green as it is when you are 10 feet from it and this also means aircraft would stand out more if they are at altitude. basically it's like haze... but it isn't.
Then there's many other things, pixel sizes maybe getting smaller and other stuff like that.

Current technologies don't allow us to simulate the world well enough that we could do away with icons and say its "more realistic".
-SW

Offline Revvin

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« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2002, 04:17:39 PM »
I'd love to fly with no icons and I have sometimes done as Durr has and turned them off for a little more immersion but I don't expect everyone to fly that way.

Julle you can argue all you like about how realistic it is, for a while I thought the same but making it hard does not equal making it realistic and while we are limited to a finite ammount of pixels on our computer screens and that ammount of pixels differing wildly amongst the community with different monitor and graphical capabilities an arena with icons is the fairest way to do it.

Offline Dago

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« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2002, 05:45:54 PM »
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virtual pilots is a present day fighter pilot instructor and a fighter squadron leader. Itīs quite hard to think otherwise some one knows about


He knows about shooting aircraft in flight with something besides a missle?  In todays Fighter Pilot world? (His name isnt Voss is it?)  They normally arent even in visual range when they fire the missle.

BTW, I am not up on current military assignments, but I thought you were either an Instructor, or a Fighter Squadron leader, but never heard of anyone doing both. hmmmmm

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Offline Durr

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« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2002, 06:36:39 PM »
Despite placing myself at an enormous disadvantage by doing so, I still persist in doing what I said, and turning off icons and refusing to use the map inflight.  It completely changes the way you play the game.  

Take the flight I just had in the CT before loggin off a few minutes ago as an example.  I took off from a British airfield in a Spitfire Mk-I.  I flew along the coast line to make visual navigation a little easier.  Once clear of a peninsula that I had marked on the map I turned NE to patrol over a base in SE England that the Germans had captured.  

I saw a speck in the sky far away and turned to fly towards it.  He turned sharply towards me as well, so I assumed that he must be enemy and had positively identified me at that point.  I jinked right to avoid the HO pass then laid into a hard left hand turn to try to end up on his tail as he blew through the merge.  Tracers shot past and as he zipped past on my left side, I confirmed that it was a Bf-109.  I lost sight of him against the ground clutter during the turn as he went behind me, then regained sight as he climbed away at high speed to set up for another pass.  Trying to maintain SA, I was desparately looking in all directions to prevent being bounced by any wingman he might have.  I noticed another con rapidly approaching from hi alt.  Soon I was desparately fighting for my life against 2 elusive enemies, a 109 and a 110.  I spotted a flitting shape passing under me to the left, rolled in on it, only to realize that it was a friendly Spitfire (identified by the elliptical wings) just before I was about to open fire.  I pulled up sharply just in time to foil a firing pass by the 110.  Seconds later the other Spitfire took a snapshot against the 110 drawing white vapor from one of its engines.  This made the 110 easy to track now and I pulled hi then rolled off the top to dive back down on the German.  He turned back for one more ho pass, but I went into a left hand chandelle, dropping neatly onto his hi 6.  I continued diving to get clear of the arc of his rear gun.  He yanked into a left hand turn to try to keep sight on me with his gunner but I easily underran his turn and stayed low then pulled into his lo 6 trail.  At a range that I estimate to have been around 300 yards I opened fire with my 8 machine guns.  A 3 second burst fireballed the 110.  Now I yanked sharply into a turn to make sure nobody was behind me.  The tension and adrenaline were far beyond anything I have had in the MA except when flying perk planes.  Now I was hopelessly lost due to all the manouvering from the dogfight.  I headed South to find the coast.  Spotting a radar station that I assumed to be a friendly one from the map, I turned to set a new heading using that as fix, but tracers rising towards me told me that I had made a mistake.  Rapidly manouvering through the curtain of fire rising towards me, I went south again, navigating using the coastline to find my home field.  Finally I spotted home, and entered the pattern for the break and landed safely.  

That mission would be nothing remarkable in the MA where I routinely have missions where I shoot down 2-5 aircraft.  Flying handicapped like this puts a whole new outlook on the mission.  
Just surviving takes 100% concentration, much less actually getting kills.  When you do get a kill though it is extremely rewarding.  Recently in the CT during the Sicily setup, I got 8 kills in one mission with icons on and using the map.  It was cool, but nowhere near as much fun or as rewarding as that one 110 kill was with the icons off.  

You feel really paranoid, like somebody is sneaking up on you all the time.  Specks in the distance get the pulse racing, since you cant tell if they are friendly or enemy until they get extremely close.

 Even just flying around is an exercise for the brain since you have to constantly be trying to keep track of your position so you dont get lost.  I dont use autopilot either so doing the math for navigation can get tricky as well, if I am using dead reckoning instead of visual, since looking away for too long can mean getting off course or even running into something.  Navigating and flying no autopilot all the time solves the problem of boredom to and from the target area.

Flying like this isnt for everybody, and personally I dont care if I am the only one that does.  And of course there are still days where I dont want to go to all the effort and just go and up a P-51b in the MA, but my favorite way to play AH is hard core, CT, icons/map/autopilot/autofuelswitch/autotrim off.  

The point of this lengthy post is to say that yes there are some people that will do this even though it puts them at a disadvantage, and to try to point out how much fun flying this way can be.  Of course if there were an arena where all icons were off, that is where you would find me, but since I suspect that such a place would have even worse attendance than the CT, I dont anticipate such a setup any time soon.

 I think everybody should play the game in the way that is the most fun for them, and I appreciate the versatility of a game that allows  me to play the way I like it, while simultanously somebody else plays in a completely different manner that they choose.

Offline moose

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« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2002, 06:09:20 AM »
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« Last Edit: May 14, 2002, 06:12:40 AM by moose »
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Offline Wotan

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« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2002, 10:27:25 AM »
i cancelled my wb account 3 months ago rarely was anyone in the war room.

maybe i didnt log on at the right time but i never saw more then 80 in wb 2.7 or wb3. Roughly 8-10% of the ah main flies in our ct at peak so if that 10% is repeated in wbs then 8 folks with no dar and no icons doesnt seem like much fun at all.

I enjoyed wbs but the mushy controls and the toejamty model of the d9 and lack of action simply bored me to death.

I remember in wb3 it was like my 3rd week with a sub spotting what looked like a formation of b17s. There wasnt but 20-30 people in game and atleast 6 were in buffs. I was in an a4 was calling out position over the buffer ans set up out in front for a ho attack. I blew through liting 1 up and he was smoking bad. I then noticed no return fire from the buff guns. So i came ded 6 and finished the 1 i smoked. There was no evasives. When the kill buffer said it was an ai buff i logged. Wtf is that?

Then there was the time i was upping and saw some ground object hauling bellybutton right at me. fediddleing buff driving around on the deck letting ai kill guys as they upped. wtf was that?

then i spot about 5 gvs so i land and grab a stuka. i killed 1 thats when i found out about gvs using otto guns. wtf is that?

They dont even have to do anything just drive around and ack star.

Then theres the mushy fm where you have to center your stick before you roll the opposite way. Left aileron, center aileron. right aileron. Now get in a scissor and do this crap.

My highest kill streak was 13 in an a8 and my hit percentage was way higher then ah. In both i flew only lw and fire at d250 or closer.

I had "fun" there but hardly a more "realistic" game (or whatever the fek that means). For the longest time there external views and ez mode were avail in the wb3 main.

Talk about unfriendly folks flinvr was the only guy there that ever answered a question I had. They still giving free accounts to guys to get a more friendly atmosphere?

I tried wb3 with no icons. That wwiiol style cloud layer coupled with chasing dotsa fer an hour wasn't much fun to me.

All the talk of realism is great but lets face it. No icons and no dar just gives folks a greater ability to "sneak" up on some one. In our combat theater (which I recently joined as a cm) we try to balance the "hardness" of the arena with gameplay.

We focus on "combat" not sneaking around. Although it happens that folks milkrun undefended bases. But not to the extent i noticed in wb3 where if you had 15 guys in game 8 were in gvs somewhere.

We have dar limited in range and it updates every 1 min. So a dot on dar that showed himself 20 miles away could be at your 6 before the next dar update. This simulates ground reports and gives a good vector without giving away to much. Icons dont lite up until d3k. But from the moment you id the con and the time the fight is on is small. These settings, much like no icons, may not be real. But we want folks to find a fight.

we have had as many as 70 in our ct. Our greatest limitation is the lack of terrrains (which are user made) but that is rapidly changing. Also the lack of planes but this is changing as well. So our ct will most likely grow. We rotate maps and set ups everyweek to keep it fresh.

You can try ah free for 2 weeks (3 weeks if you find that promotion out there). Come to our ct and check the different terrains (all of which look better then the wb3 terrains.) Come fly our 109e and tell us about "laser gunnery". Come fly our 110c and tell us at whaty range you are "killing" planes. You see the difference is a lot of folks here have flown wbs and by you own admission you havent flown ah. If you are happy where you are great have fun. But theres very little "realism" in any of these games (including il2).

Each "game" has its own problems. And from what i read on agw you guys wil pay any price for inferior gameplay. Thats your choice. We choice better gameplay over some of the better eye candy.

Anyway S! keeep us updated when you feel wb3 can compete with what ah has then let us know.

Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2002, 04:40:20 AM »
Well,I'm going to give it a try...Not!..I remember last year when they offered a free trial I thought to check it out.So I posted a thread saying who I was and that I was from AH and wanted to know from those who fly both sims what the diffefences between the two were...You should have seen the flame war that started...Talk about yanking the 'ol red carpet from under your feet.

Anyway,I tried it out(I'll try anything for free)..It was nice(different feeling FM) and enjoyed the free weekend,but for $24.95 they can get stuffed!

Also,a week after the last trial I had to paint my bathroom.As I was stirring a big can of eggshell white,I couldn't help but remember what the stick response was in WB's.
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