Author Topic: F4u4............ (Read 2271 times)

Zippatuh · « **Reply #45 on:** December 17, 2001, 01:17:00 PM »

First, WOW the LW and big blue flyers on somewhat the same side of an argument. I am completely dumbfounded. I keep hearing Bill Murray saying “Dog’s and Cat’s living together, you know, mass hysteria”.

SW – that’s not really a good example using the 202 and 205. Using the 190’s and 109’s are better. Regardless having the icon point out you’re in a perk ride labels it for everyone to suicide run to kill the perk.

In agreement with F4UDOA that having the icons either be more generic or even aircraft type removed would make it easier for perk rides. I don’t want it easier to fly perk rides I just want the same opposition I would have normally in a non-perk. By easier I meant flying not purchasing, I do want it cheaper

.

As far as cost, well, I do think it is too expensive. I’ll fly a 1D, you fly a 4, and at no time during the engagement will I be worried because it’s a 4. It does have some advantages but not overwhelming to justify the cost. I don’t think that it should be free I just think it should be cheaper.

Whels had some good comparisons with the P51D but when it comes down to it, the 4 should be listed at 60 because of the extra speed? That’s a pretty hefty cost for that speed in my opinion. I’m an energy fighter and like big blue and the mustang. Having flown both of these a lot it is hard for me to understand why the cost is at 60 when the P51/D9 (maybe the LA7) are nothing. That seems like a very large discrepancy for a small amount of difference.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want the P51 perked. I’m just saying if it’s not perked, comparably, why is the F4U-4 so much?

1) For having the cost of F4U-4 dropped.
2) For having the icon of the F4U-4 changed.
3) For having the TA152 included in the alterations of icon and perk prices

.

Zippatuh

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #46 on:** December 17, 2001, 01:21:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zippatuh:
SW – that’s not really a good example using the 202 and 205. Using the 190’s and 109’s are better. Regardless having the icon point out you’re in a perk ride labels it for everyone to suicide run to kill the perk.

Tell me, I'm very interested, on how you believe the 202/205 is not a good example?

Both are the same size. Both have the same outline. The only difference is two 20mm cannons sticking out of the wings on the 205. Oh, and the in-game paint scheme is slightly different.

The only reason it's not a good example is because it does not work for you to get the F4U-4 icon changed to a simple generic denotation such as F4U.
-SW

Zippatuh · « **Reply #47 on:** December 17, 2001, 01:47:00 PM »

Easy there fireball, you’re getting those matches and fluid out a little quick.

Point taken; change the icon to MACI. The reason I said that it wasn’t a good example is the infrequency that they are encountered. I don’t know much about 109’s but I believe there is more of a difference in flight characteristics between the 109’s we have in AH then the 3 non-perked variants of the F4 or 202/205. I may be wrong. In any case whenever those icons show up I treat em as G10’s or D9’s regardless.

Same thing with the LA5 and 7, just change it to LA. In any account I would rather get rid of aircraft identification all together. I think that’s another argument though.

This does present a question. Is it possible for you to contribute to a discussion without being condescending to an individual or a topic? I think I’ve seen some people in the past make reference to your age. I’m beginning to understand where those comments where coming from.

Zippatuh

F4UDOA · « **Reply #48 on:** December 17, 2001, 02:00:00 PM »

OK,

1. Nifty, I didn't say anything about perking anything much less a Spit V.

2. Swulfe, This is supposed to be a WW2 simulation which gives the most reality based on what is available with the current technology. Based on that you shouldn't know the differance between a C202 or a C205 at 6,000 yards, much less the difference between a F4U-1 and a -4. In fact all you should be able to distigush at that range is that it is an Aicraft of some size either single or multi engine. So your question should be why do we know the differance between a C202 and C205 at 6K? Not why should the F4U-4 be different. By the way there is not F4U-1C icon in AH. Why not?

3. Laz's. I think you do really agree with me. You alway's insist that dogfighting is the most fun part of the game. What would also be a fun part of the game is to actually surprise someone with your perk plane. For instance catching and LA7 with your F4U-4. Or surprising someone with a Ki-84 when they think they are jumping a Zero. Reality dictates that this should be a surprise until you are within 1,000yards anyway. This would not bring any additional advantage to the perk plane than they already have and deserve for flying it.

BTW, along the lines of fun. It is a funny thing that I have over 900 fighter perks currently and I almost never fly a perk plane. Even my beloved F4U-4. Why? Because it is no FUN to be chased by half the MA for flying it. I never get to fight a P-51D, FW190D-9, Tempest or TA152 to test the match of uber planes. Instead I get chased be every NIK2, Pony, and Spit on a suicide mission within a sector. This is neither fun nor realistic.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #49 on:** December 17, 2001, 02:01:00 PM »

No matter the frequency, it's still two planes currently modelled in the game and thus I believe it would be more appropriate to not make lopsided requests.

Such as "F4U-4 needs generic F4U icon!!". Sure, maybe it does. But if I point out something else identical to the very thing you state, it's "not a good example"..

You simply said "not a good example", no reason what-so-ever. I can take that any way I want because you don't leave me any material to base a better opinion on.

I mean, afterall, I could simply say that changing the F4U-4 icon to F4U is silly.

Be free to take that anyway you want.

The 202 will turn inside almost very plane, exceptions being A6M5b and SpitV. The 205 will only get inside a few in a turn.

The difference in turn performance, and more importantly, guns means that being able to tell the difference between the planes 6K away (where the 20mm guns wouldn't be visible at all) means you can choose your fight right off the gun.

"Is it possible for you to contribute to a discussion without being condescending to an individual or a topic?"

Sure, if the topic is worth it. This ain't, it's just a rehash of the same old tired arguments and counter-point arguments that it's just dejavu.

"I think I’ve seen some people in the past make reference to your age. I’m beginning to understand where those comments where coming from."

Ouch! Now that was a stinger! Hey, guess what? I don't care- I've met 14 year olds more grown up than half the 40 year olds on this board so you can stuff that useless comment right back up the same puckered orifice it came from.
-SW

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #50 on:** December 17, 2001, 02:03:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
2. Swulfe, This is supposed to be a WW2 simulation which gives the most reality based on what is available with the current technology. Based on that you shouldn't know the differance between a C202 or a C205 at 6,000 yards, much less the difference between a F4U-1 and a -4. In fact all you should be able to distigush at that range is that it is an Aicraft of some size either single or multi engine. So your question should be why do we know the differance between a C202 and C205 at 6K? Not why should the F4U-4 be different. By the way there is not F4U-1C icon in AH. Why not?

I wasn't asking a question, I was giving you the answer.
-SW

Tac · « **Reply #51 on:** December 17, 2001, 02:13:00 PM »

I agree on the icon issue. If they look alike they should not have an icon telling them apart. Read: 202/205, f4u's/f4u-4, 190's/ta152 (though the larger wings are a dead giveaway), la5/la7.

"Seems to me the price is about right, I am simply dumbfounded as to why you people keep wanting to lower the costs of the late war uber-rides when you all complain enough as is about currently free late war uber-rides dominating the arena."

I think the word "free" is the key here. Putting the current perk planes at more than twice the perk cost of the "late war uber-rides dominating the arena" will put those that want the uber ride have to pay for getting the performance advantage they get from those planes, and pay even more for the planes that are currently perked. Lowering the cost of the currently perked planes will make it more accessible to all players, many can't play them because of either skill or time or clue issues. A 15 perk cost will see them being used semi-rarely, but used. Not like now that seeing an f4u4 or ta152 is so rare that EVERYONE gets a hardon and tries their best to HO them down. Perk points also would get used a lot and spent quickly this way. Think of it like a market

Put the current late uberwarides at 5 perk cost, and you may even get the 5 perkers going hunting AFTER the 15 perkers. The non-perked planes are still at the same risk from the perk planes regardless, but at least some control is put in place to prevent the current "latewaruberrides" planes with big performance advantage to be in overwhelming use.

milnko · « **Reply #52 on:** December 17, 2001, 02:35:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran:
That's a different argument altogether. The fact is those planes do NOT exist in the set yet, and until they do the point is moot.

Perhaps part of the reason they don't exist is that HTC realizes how very little these early war planes would see use.

Personally I'd love a P-40, but I'd hafta be some kinda masochist to use it in the current MA.

Overall IMO all the perk planes are over-priced with the exception of the F4U-C.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #53 on:** December 17, 2001, 02:41:00 PM »

Make the icons just say "fighter" or "bomber" until you get real close. Hell, I can just guess La7 or Spit at d6 and have a 75% chance of being right.

Kieran · « **Reply #54 on:** December 17, 2001, 02:55:00 PM »

I rather believe the reason you don't see so many early-war birds is because of the niche AH filled when it began- a late-war extravaganza. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to fly the early war stuff you mentioned. It just seems to me that perking planes in preparation for planes that don't yet exist seems like putting the cart before the horse.

WRT perking late war planes currently not perked, tread lightly. 5 points may not sound like a lot to many of you guys, but to the new guy it places these planes out of reach. Now they get the joy of flying their 202's, Zekes, Spit V's, and 109F's against guys that can remain untouchable. What you wind up doing is removing equity from the sim. If we are truly headed down this path, at least wait until there are more planes from which to choose.

One does have to marvel at the spectrum of opinion on this issue. Perk 'em all! Perk none! Perk only the Allied stuff!

WarChild · « **Reply #55 on:** December 17, 2001, 03:08:00 PM »

I asked HT specifically bout the f4u-4 after i got sole attention of a furball and got shot down. Hes stated its singled out liek that BECAUSE its a perk plane.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #56 on:** December 17, 2001, 03:27:00 PM »

What is wrong with....

D6.0K to D3.1K only friendly green or NME red icon with generic Fighter or Bomber tag.

D3.0K to D1.1K Generic IE. Macchi, Spit, 109, F4U Tag.

D0.0K to 1.0K Specific plane type Icon IE. SpitV, FW190A5-D9, P51D/B or C202 C205.

This makes it possible to actually enjoy your perk points without attracting every perk hunting, HOing, suicide dweeb within miles.

Also it adds Realism!! A novel idea.

And it corrects the current flaw of having some A/C fly with no specific identity IE, the FW190D9, ME109G10 and F4U-1C.

This favors no Nation or specific plane type. It offers both perked and unperked planes the same opportunities.

So what's up? Is this not better?

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: F4UDOA ]

Hajo · « **Reply #57 on:** December 17, 2001, 03:59:00 PM »

Perk perk perk........fer crisakes give it up already. If we had the Sopwith Camel I'm damned sure someone would want to perk that. Quit your cryin' and fly damnit! <G>

Kieran · « **Reply #58 on:** December 17, 2001, 03:59:00 PM »

I don't dislike the idea, it just isn't a priority to me like getting more planes and goodies. Seems like a reasonable request, though.

funkedup · « **Reply #59 on:** December 17, 2001, 04:03:00 PM »

Pimpjoe it wasn't directed at you. It was a general blast directed at the perk-this-perk-that crowd.