Author Topic: spitXIV is beyond crappy (Read 1321 times)

Wilbus · « **Reply #60 on:** May 27, 2002, 01:30:28 PM »

Cause they can't fly it for S*it Mando and they can't get kills in it becaus you gotto stay fast and shoot good rather then just uber zoom and spray and pray with hispanos.

I agree whoever on the perk system that it is all WAAAAY TO HELL, while teh Spit 14 and TA152 are perked the LA7 go free as a bird and is more or less unbeatable at the alts the fights are fought in the MA, if it fights at 20k and looses you just head to the deck and win easyily or run easily. Spit 14 can't run at the deck, it can climb like a freakinh rocket but that doesn't save you from uber E LA7.
The TA152 can't do a single thing against many planes bellow 20k, it can't run, turn, climb or zoom. so why da hell are these two birds perked at all while the Uber LA7 (amongst other) are totally free? Don't give me any crap about productions number here and there because that is just plane BS when it comes to the MA.

Ps. The TA152 is no faster and turn no better then a P51B at 30k+, only difference is guns, so why isn't the P51B perked???

Unperk all planes but the ones that drasticly unbalance the arena (C hog) and the 262.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #61 on:** May 27, 2002, 02:16:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
All of you Spit drivers, why u dont switch to fly the mighty, unbeatable and unperked Dora??

Best not be directed at me, cuz you got another thing comin'.
-SW

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #62 on:** May 27, 2002, 02:57:50 PM »

The La7 is crappy why are you all so worried about them?

Wilbus · « **Reply #63 on:** May 27, 2002, 04:18:15 PM »

Only reason LA7 is crapy is because they are mostly being flown my very new pilots, go up against a OK flown LA7 an nothing non perked can really catch it. What it can't turn with it can outrun.

Karnak · « **Reply #64 on:** May 27, 2002, 07:21:53 PM »

I did fly the D-9 for quite a while.

The thing is a god plane, up there with the P-51D. I found it quite easy to be successful in. I wonder where you get the idea that it is hard to use?

On the other hand, I don't fly Spits much anymore. Don't like the idiots whining at me, and I really only have interest in the MkXIV (but being gangbanged keeps me out of it). So, on the rare times I'm online, I fly Mossies or whatever strikes my fancy (190A-5 last time).

Widewing · « **Reply #65 on:** May 28, 2002, 12:39:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus
Only reason LA7 is crapy is because they are mostly being flown my very new pilots, go up against a OK flown LA7 an nothing non perked can really catch it. What it can't turn with it can outrun.

I'm glad you guys didn't tell me this before. I'd never have run up a 30/5 ratio against them, because out of fear I'd have avoided them.

Yet, flying the La-7, I'm 85/15. So, the ratios are just about the same, meaning that it's as much tactics as anything else. Once you know how to fly the La-7, you will also know how to fight them and kill them.

BTW, the SpitXIV is vastly better than the Lavochkin everywhere but in low-level speed.

I see absolutely no reason to perk the La-7. Likewise, I see no reason to perk the Dora or Mustangs either (10/3 against Dora, 5/1 flying it - 50/7 against P-51, 33/8 flying it). Understanding the strengths and weaknesses of each type is what makes for success. Actual ACM skills are secondary to knowledge. For example, I've killed the La-7 flying the following:
P-51B
Fw 190D
Bf 109F-4
La-7
N1K2
Hurricane
F4U
F6F
Seafire
SpitXIV
Ki-61

This is a solid mix of Angles and Energy types.

Quit squeaking about the "uberness" of the La-7, and learn how to deal with them. They're not half the Boogiemen you guys build them up to be.

Now, before you say that I defend the La-7 because I fly it, consider this. A few other scores:

Ki-61: 37/7
Hurri IIC: 71/13
SpitIX: 23/5
Yak-9U: 21/5
F4U-1C: 53/13
Typhoon: 14/3

It really doesn't make much difference what you fly, if you fly it smart.

My regards,

Widewing

Naudet · « **Reply #66 on:** May 28, 2002, 02:44:05 AM »

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Naudet, roll in one direction, then reverse in the other. It ain't the same as the SpitIX in the stability aspect.

To be honest, the difference must be so small i just didnt noticed it.
And i did roll left-right and back multiple times to notice this instability, but i did not see any significiant difference.

And btw i think this instability seems realistic, just look at the powerincrease and torque of the 5-blade prob. That would explain the difference.

And as many Spit Pilots stated the IX was the best spitfire of all. The earlier ones lagged power and the later once lagged handling.

Quote

I did fly the D-9 for quite a while.

The thing is a god plane, up there with the P-51D. I found it quite easy to be successful in. I wonder where you get the idea that it is hard to use?

Compared to the XIV or even IX it is hard to get good results. And with the current MA setup that totaly overrates the turning aspect of A2A combat spitfires are given an incredible performance edge.

While in WW2 RAF pilots said "Turning wins no airbattles" in the MA the opposite is more true "In the end turning wins AH battles".

And that's why the XIV needs to be perked and the D9 or P51 not.
The XIV would simply dominate the MA with its numbers, while even now that the D9 and P51 have a speed edge in the MA over most non-perks they don't have any significiant effect nor are they overused.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #67 on:** May 28, 2002, 08:47:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Naudet
While in WW2 RAF pilots said "Turning wins no airbattles" in the MA the opposite is more true "In the end turning wins AH battles".

And that's why the XIV needs to be perked and the D9 or P51 not.
The XIV would simply dominate the MA with its numbers, while even now that the D9 and P51 have a speed edge in the MA over most non-perks they don't have any significiant effect nor are they overused.

That may be true for you. That may be true for anyone who commits to turning. But the fact of the matter is, turning only works when evading someone or when someone is dumb enough to commit to a pure turn fight.

Yes, in that case turning wins fights. But if flown properly, a D9 will NEVER be touched by a SpitIX.

The D9 and P51D are more survivable and easier to get kills in than the SpitIX. In the SpitIX when you commit to turning, there isn't much you can do after that.

Turning only delays the inevitable.

Don't have any significant effect or are overused? Uhm, did you not read my post pointing out that the D9 is used more than both the A5 and A8? Did you miss the part where the P51D is close to 10% of total kills?

The only other planes that come that close are other uber late war monsters.

Nevertheless, I'll make a film since none of you apparently see what I'm talking about.

THe difference between the SpitIX and XIV is not what I'm talking about. I know the XIV is laterally unstable compared to the IX. That's NOT my point.

My point is, if ones gonna be perked, perk all the uber late war monsters.
-SW

Wilbus · « **Reply #68 on:** May 28, 2002, 12:42:26 PM »

Dora and P51 ARE easier to survive in YES. BUT there is no WAY a Dora is easier to get kills in, B&Z being the only way to actually get kills (and be some what safe) it's very easy to avoid. P51 is a bit easier thanks to 50 cals but spit 9 still FAR easier to get kills in. Who says you can't use E tactics in Spit?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #69 on:** May 28, 2002, 01:03:12 PM »

Wilbus,
You can use the SpitIX as an E-fighter all you want- but both the Pee51 and the Dweeb9 (

) can get away from the SpitIX. Dive away- now I know what some are going to say. "But the SpitIX dives just as fast"- yes, but at speeds it don't roll well at all. Change directions a lot in the dive. If he wants to follow you, he's gotta slow down.

Now, as far as the SpitIX being "easier" to get kills in- this can be argued since I found it just as easy getting kills in the D9 as I did in the SpitIX (when I flew it)... It took a little bit more of setting up in 1vs1s... but it's still not any harder. Then on top of that, take a D9 into a furball and stay fast.

I always have a ball taking an A8 into a furball and extending out of it with sometimes up to 8 or 9 kills. That I simply could not do in a SpitIX.

So it all depends on how you fly it that will say whether or not it's easier or harder.
-SW

Hristo · « **Reply #70 on:** May 28, 2002, 01:17:47 PM »

Turning may win air battles in AH only because there is no fear of death.

IMO, of course.

Angus · « **Reply #71 on:** May 28, 2002, 02:57:51 PM »

Turnfights were common in ww2, and although many pilots (espercially those flying worse turning aircraft) rather avoided them, they would not always manage to.
Even today, turning ability is taken into account both in tactics and aircraft design.
So turning IS a bit important. The more so if the airplane performs well in other categories. And at low alt and low speed, or when being bounced badly, it certainly is.
That's what makes the Spit XIV perk material, while the Dora, P51, La-7, 109G10 and Typhoon are not. The Spit XIV stays with them in almost any category, climbs with the best, and out-turns the lot of them.
However, from my experience, not by far, so if its FM is to stay like this, its at least not worth the perks it costs.

Turbot · « **Reply #72 on:** May 28, 2002, 03:30:32 PM »

Spit 14s are free in CT now. This is your chance to see for yourself at low cost.

Karnak · « **Reply #73 on:** May 28, 2002, 03:48:11 PM »

Yes, the Spit IX and N1K2 are easier to get kills in than the Fw190D-9, but not by nearly the margin you guys like to make out. The Spit and N1K2 are not auto kill machines, and in fact rely greatly on their enemies being stupid.

The Fw190D-9 is easy to get kills in, just not the easiest. The Fw190D-9 is very much easier to survive in than are the Spit IX, XIV or N1K2. Now, if the Spit XIV didn't have a perk icon it'd be easier in all ways than the Fw190D-9.

If you want to impress us with how good you are don't fly any 190. Fly the C.202 or Spit Ia to the K/D ratios you attain in the Fw190s. 190s are all on the easy end of the scale, but not at the farthest end of the scale.

Naudet · « **Reply #74 on:** May 28, 2002, 04:38:13 PM »

As i flew almost always the D9, i say it's one of the best survivers but not an easy killing machine.

About the D9 escaping a IX in a dive. The Spit will lose no elevator authority, nor will it lose as much roll as a D9 at speed.

Also the IX will never compress (i tried to get it there in a 25K near vertical dive) while the D9 will do.

And sure i cannot achieve my D9 ratio in a Spit IX or NIKI, why? Cause i use the only advantage the AH D9 really has to escaped unhealthy situations and i follow strict rules.
Also to much others fly the same plane. In an arena full of D9s i would never be able to hold my last K/D.
And last but not least, my K/D in anything other than the D9 is of no interest to me, those other birds are just planes, while the D9 is .... is the D9.

Turning in WW2:

Read E. Hartmanns Biograhy ("Holt Hartmann vom Himmel") there you can read that turnfighting was prefered by "musclepilots". They would win the fight cause they were physical superior to their victim, as turnfighting needed enormous muscle power.
The planes turning circle actually didnt matter much, it was the pilots strength.
Not so tough guys had to used different tactics.
Btw this was why the FW190 was so well liked among german pilots, its extrem easy handling. Cause easier handling means less physical fatique.
Does anyone really think WW2 pilots pulled Gs like our turnfighter jockeys? Go out try it, fly a spitfire through constant 3-5G turns for 5 minutes, i guess you will be happy to have your PC joystick back.

Anyway after reading lot of combat record i believe WW2 A2A was very different to AH.
Just imagine to combat distances. Most kills were scored under 200 yards, many within 100 yards.
In those cases the speed difference could not vary greatly or else the two planes would have collieded.