I think this is what Mr. Franklin was talking about....

[AKSWulfe]

I wonder how many of you people actually believe I was serious. I was proposing that as an argument to what I quoted.

Of course, most Americans are sheep... the guvment are the sheepherders... sheep trust the sheepherders even when they really shouldn't.

Or maybe more appropriately... Americans are cows... big brotha is the cowboy rounding 'em up... and edging them ever so slowly to the slaughter house.

Does anyone actually trust the government? These guys could, and so far some do, get away with murder.
-SW

[milnko]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM


roadkill... your pistols and semi-automatic weapons aren't going to change the government. This argument is so tired.

Militias... LOL

You know, I imagine the British King and Parliament thought much the same thing when they sent troops in to squash the colonial rebellion.

What makes you confident that the Army or Police would open fire on thier own citizens?

When the coup leaders in Russia tried to oust Gorbachev they sent in troops to disperse the crowds in Moscow, the coup leaders received a rude shock when the troops refused to fire on the citizens.

Exactly what reason do YOU believe the founding fathers had in mind when including the bearing arms while drafting the Bill Of Rights?

Repelling invasion?
Self protection from hostile Indians?

Let's look at the exact wording of the Amendment;
(On September 25, 1789, Congress transmitted to the state legislatures twelve proposed amendments, ten amendments which became the Bill of Rights.)

Amendment II.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Hmmmm, it's interesting that the words MILITIA, NECESSARY, SECURITY and FREE STATE should all be used in the wording of the Amendment when outlining the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, don't you think?

The founding fathers having just fought a war for Independence were well aware that as regretable as it may be, there are times in mankind's history when protests, discussions, implorments, and petitions have all been fully exhausted, a time when only force of arms will protect Rights and Liberties.

Do I advocate a violent overthrow of the US Goverment? The answer is NO!

Do I believe that a violent rebellion to overthrow the US goverment would succeed? The answer is NO!

However, it's my belief that the Right to Bear Arms was secured to give pause to the standing goverment, to insure those in power think twice and think hard in when contemplating the disposal of free elections, and disregarding of the expressed will of the people to whom they serve.

[miko2d]

I will tell you what the problem is.

 When US was just created and it did not have many laws or government, people had to exercise their own power - practice democracy so to speak.
 If they did not like foreign country, they did not buy their stuff. If they wanted to support native industry, they bought the prodicts.
 It was not really like that, but much closer then what we have now.

 Then they found it too much of a hasle and gave some more power to the government - to save their children the trouble. So teh children grew up in a democracy but they were not practicing democrats themselves - they never had a chance or reason. It went downhill from there.
 We have a democratic country but practicaly no democrats - people willing to exercise their judgement.
 That is why we ended up with a whole load of laws restricting ourselves. What is the point? If we do not want to do it, we do not need laws. If we want to do it, we do not want laws...
 Anyway, once power got concentared, it became much easier to subvert - under the best pretexts. All those nuicance laws protecting us against ourlesves - seatbelt laws, bycicle helmet laws, concensual crimes (drug use), prohibition.

 If a father wants to raise a good child, he does not shield him from teh difficulties he encountered himself. Otherwise that child will be complete opposite of the father. You cannot do everything for the people - at least not if you wish them good.

 miko

[fdiron]

Just kill all the democrats and we will be free.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by milnko
You know, I imagine the British King and Parliament thought much the same thing when they sent troops in to squash the colonial rebellion.

What makes you confident that the Army or Police would open fire on thier own citizens?

When the coup leaders in Russia tried to oust Gorbachev they sent in troops to disperse the crowds in Moscow, the coup leaders received a rude shock when the troops refused to fire on the citizens.

Exactly what reason do YOU believe the founding fathers had in mind when including the bearing arms while drafting the Bill Of Rights?

Repelling invasion?
Self protection from hostile Indians?

Let's look at the exact wording of the Amendment;
(On September 25, 1789, Congress transmitted to the state legislatures twelve proposed amendments, ten amendments which became the Bill of Rights.)

Amendment II.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Hmmmm, it's interesting that the words MILITIA, NECESSARY, SECURITY and FREE STATE should all be used in the wording of the Amendment when outlining the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, don't you think?

The founding fathers having just fought a war for Independence were well aware that as regretable as it may be, there are times in mankind's history when protests, discussions, implorments, and petitions have all been fully exhausted, a time when only force of arms will protect Rights and Liberties.

Do I advocate a violent overthrow of the US Goverment? The answer is NO!

Do I believe that a violent rebellion to overthrow the US goverment would succeed? The answer is NO!

However, it's my belief that the Right to Bear Arms was secured to give pause to the standing goverment, to insure those in power think twice and think hard in when contemplating the disposal of free elections, and disregarding of the expressed will of the people to whom they serve.

Where is this "well-regulated militia"?

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM


Where is this "well-regulated militia"?

It's south of Cleveland, about 20 paces, turn left then dig.

-Sikboy

[Sandman]

Originally posted by fdiron
Just kill all the democrats and we will be free.

Two options...

1. Kill the conservatives. We'll all be free.
2. Kill the liberals. We'll all be safe.