Author Topic: D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA (Read 3471 times)

Kieran · « **Reply #180 on:** January 04, 2002, 08:27:00 PM »

Straight out question Mandoble- are you now suggesting we perk the Spit V too?

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #181 on:** January 04, 2002, 09:00:00 PM »

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Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
Do we want a rich arena or a monotone one?

The arena is already rich. Last night I ran into P-51s, P-38s, P-47s, F6Fs, F4Us, N1Ks, Spits, 205s, 202s, 109s, 190s, La5s, La7s, Yaks, Zekes, a Hurricane, a 262, a 152, assorted ground vehicles, PT Boats, and a C-47 or two.

Is that "monotone?"

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Are these spit drivers giving a chance to other planes or will they live forever behind their UBER hispanos? Have they ever tried 109F? C205? F6F? all of them excelent turners. Perking the spit will not make this plane unavailable to the people. 1 perk point? 2 perks? just enough to regulate the population. IMO, perks should help us to have plane-rich arena, and a more dynamic perking system would be desirable.

Your description of a "monotone" arena is simply a straw man you've built up to justify perking planes you don't like seeing. The fact is that the arena already features a wide variety of planes at any given time, but you're either unwilling or unable to notice this.

In addition, you have no idea if Spit pilots have tried out other planes or not. Before I flew the Spit V, I flew the Spit IX, the P-47D30, and the Typhoon each for long stretches. I fly what's enjoyable for me, not what's enjoyable for you.

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Why do you want your perks if you have no planes to use them? 262? too expensive. Ta152? no idea why its perked? Tempest? good ride but why to use it having the La7? Actually there is almost no reason to use your perks, in fact, perk planes are almost unused.

So now the uselessness of perk points also justifies perking Spits? I thought the need to ensure a "plane-rich" arena was the justification. Sorry, but my roadkillometer just maxed out.

-- Todd/Leviathn

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #182 on:** January 05, 2002, 06:37:00 AM »

My first statement was to perk the Spit, not to perk only one Spit model.
Kieran, how many kills do you need in a SpitV to get ONE perk point?
Do you really think that our actual MA is compensated? When I look into my stats of previous tour and I notice the ammount of Spits killed I realize how compensate and rich is our arena: 122 Spits followed by 44 La7...

Karnak · « **Reply #183 on:** January 05, 2002, 06:40:00 AM »

MANDOBLE,

If diversity is your goal, and you want to get other's out of the aircraft they prefer in order to further diversiry, tell me this:

When was the last time you flew a Ki-61? How about a C.205 or 202? Have you flown a Hurricane lately? How about my "pet" plane, the Mosquito?

Why don't you fly these?

I see 109s and 190s much, much more than any of those.

If you are unwilling to spend much time out of what you like in order to increase the diversity, how can you justify asking others to do so?

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #184 on:** January 05, 2002, 06:58:00 AM »

Karnak, agree with you. And if due overusage D9 becomes perked, I'll be happy to pay for it.
I'm not critizying Spit pilots, I'm only trying to find out a way to reduce spit numbers in arena. The first way was to engange and shot down every spit I saw, but didnt work, they had more spits waiting for them in the hangar

Karnak · « **Reply #185 on:** January 05, 2002, 07:26:00 AM »

MANDOBLE,

You missed what I was trying to say.

What I am trying to get at are these things:

What is the "magic" number that equals overuse? Why is it that number?

Why don't you fly Ki-61s and Mossies? The 190 is overused compared to them. Should it be perked because of this? Why not?

For my part, I find that slow assed planes like the Spits and N1K2s do a lot less to harm my enjoyment of the game than fast aircraft like the Fw190D-9, La-7, Typhoon and P-51. This is hardly surprising given what I usually fly, but it is not a reason to try to get people out of those aircraft if they enjoy flying them. I will guarantee that I will be gone from AH if the fast BnZ aircraft replace the slow TnB aircraft as the most popular. Those fast BnZ aircraft mean my death everythime if the pilot is even close to average.

FWIW, I'll be right beside you asking for the Spit IX to be perked if it gets 20% of the kills in a tour.

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: Karnak ]

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #186 on:** January 05, 2002, 08:14:00 AM »

Karnak, your hate for the B&Zoomers is just a hate for top speed differences. These B&Zoomers kill themselves as T&Burners.

Sincerely, Turn'till puke alone, IMO, is the most boring and ridiculous way of fighting I've ever seen. Same with B&Z alone, pathetically inefective and boring. Just mix it up T&B with B&Z and you'll have the most enjoyable and interesting fights. Obviously, to do that you will need speed, but not just speed at level, dive, acceleration and climb are, IMO, far better important factors. The speed at level is only usefull to catch a fleeing plane (already defeated) or to flee when you've already been defeated.

Kieran · « **Reply #187 on:** January 05, 2002, 08:30:00 AM »

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I'm only trying to find out a way to reduce spit numbers in arena.

Wow. There is more truth in that statement than you realize. I'm out on this thread.

lazs1 · « **Reply #188 on:** January 05, 2002, 10:44:00 AM »

I gotta agree with karnak and dmf. I never thought the Chog was much of a plane but it did create a certain behavior and was overused. The Spit, lag, nik, 51 scourge is not that great IMO. I see a lot of variety in the arena and I see a lot more 109/190's than a lot of the other planes.

We will never use some of the earlier less capable planes so long as it is an "anything goes" arena. An "area" arena seems the only solution other than some historical arena with the endlessly boring 109/190 vs whatever 24/7.

karnak is also right in that it is the fast planes that kill the variety in the arena. The late war fast planes need to vbe segregated if we are to have any hope of usuing the early war planes. I fly the -1 and I never actually "fight" a D9 or 51 or lag. I sometimes catch em slow and kill em or they catch me busy and kill me. That is not anything like the fighting I do with spits, niks hellcats, 47's 38's 205's etc. I prefer the later.
lazs
lazs

AKEagle+ · « **Reply #189 on:** January 05, 2002, 02:08:00 PM »

My newbie $.02 again

It would seem to me that if they perked the D9, I would go to a A8 or maybe a P47. Or maybe learn to ride the Pony properly. Why fly perked planes? All you have to do is fly the best plane for your style that is non-perked, and you will probably do quite well as I see so few perked planes in the arena.

Haven't seen a Tempest in ages, can't ever remember seeing a ME-262 in the last month. Chogs are almost extinct.

Seems that the best way to kill a plane is to perk it

Just my rambling on...

Eagle shuffles back to his cave muttering something about "wish I had my Chogs back"

AKEagle+

Karnak · « **Reply #190 on:** January 05, 2002, 04:38:00 PM »

MANDOBLE,

I don't hate BnZ aircraft. I don't hate any aircraft. Its just that to a Mossie, which is a not staggeringly fast 1943 aircraft, they mean death. I can run from a Spit or N1K2, but a P-51D or La-7 means I'm dead unless the other guy is stupid or I have a lot of E on him. Its true that I can at least out turn a Bf109G-10 or Fw190D-9, but who is going to turn one of those against a Mossie?

When I fly an Fw190D-9 I do use BnZ pretty much exclusively, I'm not good enough with it to mix it up with much success. When I fly the "easy" aircraft, Spit IX, N1K2, C.205, Bf109F-4 and La-7, I use a combination of BnZ and TnB. When I fly a Spit V or Zero I TnB pretty exclusively.

When I fly Mossies I do whatever I can to try to win, but it is a challenge. Planes like the P-51D, Yak-9U, Bf109G-2 and P-38L outdo to Mossie in every flight characteristic other than firepower. It isn't the Spits and N1K2s that make things like the Mossie (and future things like the Me410) so hard to use, its the fast P-51s, Fw190D-9s, Bf109G-10s, Typhoons and La-7s that make them hard to use in the MA.

Too many fast aircraft will have a very adverse effect on the variety in the MA. Fast fighters eliminate a whole host of interesting early and mid war aircraft because those fighters will always kill them if the fighter pilots have any idea what they are doing. Purge the MA of Spits and N1K2s and you force people into the P-51D and La-7 and other people out of their C.205s and Mossies.

lazs1 · « **Reply #191 on:** January 05, 2002, 06:40:00 PM »

guess I am trying to say that I would 10 times rather fight in an arena full of niks and spits than one full of 51's and D9's... Sure 51's and D9's aren't much fun to fly but they are even less fun to fly against for the average plane.
lazs

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #192 on:** January 05, 2002, 08:17:00 PM »

Karnak, IMO, the problem is not in the speed.
If a very fast plane wants to engange you in a slow one, he will need to slow down and doghfight you to get the kill. If he keeps fast, he will fail over'n over and will get extremely bored in few minutes. With the icons and radar, fast slashes has minimal effect unless the enemy is AFK, blinded or enjoying his first AH week. Once the fast aircarft has slow down to catch you, the acceleration and gun power are primary factors. If he wants to flee from you, acceleration will be also the primary factor. For example, La7 is not a monster due its top speed, probably equivalent to the Typh on the deck, but due its brutal acceleration. An imaginary La7 with a top speed on the deck of only 350 mph would be the same monster. Actually, I only know 4 planes that can keep fast and score kills somewhat easily: P51, P47, P38 and Moosie. And the only reason is that their weapons can kill at 1000 yards and have an exceptional snapshot capability. Try to keep at 400 mph with D9, La7 or any 109 and lets see how easy is to get a single kill...

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #193 on:** January 05, 2002, 08:58:00 PM »

Its funny how the guys who fly "fast" planes complain about the slow ones ruining the MA and how the guys who fly "slow" planes complain about the fast ones ruining the MA.

I tend to fly the Bf109G6 and FW190A5, neither are very fast but arent exactly slow either, I guess I should be pretty happy.

Karnak · « **Reply #194 on:** January 05, 2002, 09:08:00 PM »

MANDOBLE,

You haven't fought many Mossies, have you?

Slashing attacks work just fine on them as they are ponderous, huge targets.

Bf110s and Me410s will be exactly the same. Can't turn out of the way and can't run.

In addition, I certainly don't have godlike SA when I'm in a fight. I don't keep the map up for the AWACS view and I can't always be looking behind me.

You may think that I primarily fly Spits, but you'd be quite mistaken in that. I rarely fly Spits.

GRUNHERZ,

I don't think that the fast planes are ruining the MA. I do think that having only the fast planes available would ruin the MA.