Author Topic: Pongo - Equalized Numbers Discussion (Read 2441 times)

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #105 on:** June 11, 2002, 07:20:30 AM »

No matter whether this is rook or knight or orcbish, but IMO, we have a serious problem here. There is some point where country A has no chance to fight, and countries B and C are just fighting each other while keeping country A tied looking for favorable reset conditions. This period may be hours, hours where country A has no chance to fight/defend, just to wait for the reset while being vulched over'n over.

Yesterday, for example, we were totally destroyed, and knights stopped the offensive just to keep jaboing our factories and cities well behind their own frontiers while spanking our HQ and keeping our bases closed. The bishorc horde just kept vulching our western frontiers without real interest into taking fields.

What about a "surrender" toggle button on the strat page? More than 50% of a country players with that button pressed and the reset is forced.

Toad · « **Reply #106 on:** June 11, 2002, 09:35:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
There is some point where country A has no chance to fight,

Yes, agreed. This is generally just before the reset occurs. That's how resets occur, isn't it? In fact, we could almost say that is how the Strat is designed to work.

Now, whether or not the other two countries go immediately for the "kill" or whether they just keep "milkrunning"... well, that's an uncontrollable "human" factor. Some guys go for the kill, some go for the milkruns.

As long as we're not "forcing" anything I wouldn't care.

Surrender button? Sure, why not if it is strictly voluntary.

Just remember that almost every "solution" to a perceived problem brings new problems.

For example, what's to prevent some big group fun-loving guys from switching sides and all pushing the "surrender" button at one time whether or not the now-surrendering country is in its death-throes? Particularly in low-overall arena numbers situations when just a 20 or 30 guys could tip the 50% "trigger".

And what if a group of guys just decided they didn't like the particular map we were on.. so they just surrender to get a new map. Is that going to be no problem for everyone?

You get the idea, I'm sure. There always seems to be more problems generated by the solutions. Not always "better" or "worse" problems... just new problems.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #107 on:** June 11, 2002, 12:44:35 PM »

Following mandobles line of thought, maybe reset should occur with more fields left intact..

That would mean most likely that the country who is getting reseted can keep fighting almost normally untill the end. They wouldn't have to choose between being grounded or being vulched trying. It's very typical that on the virge of reset the two leading countries start shooting it out between eachothers, trying to steal the reset from the other.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #108 on:** June 11, 2002, 01:02:05 PM »

MrRiplEy[H], you may have an intact and undamaged field capped by a zillion of orcbishes. This is not going to ensure "fighting almost normally" by any means.

Possible solutions:

1 - Surrender poll.
2 - With some criteria (only 3 bases left?), activating a 3D zone in the space near a map margin where the obliterated country may spawn its planes already airborne (simulating out-of-the-map reinforcements?). For example, a zone of 10milesx5milesx5000 feet placed 5000 feet above the ground or sea near a map margin where your planes spawn at a random possition and height (into the box limits) and they spawn just 50 Mph avobe stall speed, leveled and with AP level enganged. To ensure this spawn area is not going to be used as strategic mission catapult, limit the fuel to 75% internal and disable the spawn of bombers. At least the defending country will be able to conduct jabo missions against a nearby captured base.
3 - Place your idea here ...

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #109 on:** June 11, 2002, 01:07:31 PM »

Mandoble I meant that maybe it would be better if reset came with for example 5 fields left.. That way they all wouldn't probably be capped before the reset treshold finally breaks.

Xjazz · « **Reply #110 on:** June 11, 2002, 03:39:47 PM »

I have followup these "Country numbers" topics for a while...

I need to say that MrRipley have a very good point about this issue.

GENERALLY (IMHO):
1. Long timers of the country (BTW: I have been change for short period to the Knit from Rooks and back)
2. People who want first of all to be at winner side no matter of anything else.
3. People who simply enjoy beat weaker ones (school yard syndrome).
4. Those who have a guts fight what evere numbers are in enemy side.

I take 1. and 4. no need to ask why, just take a look where Im from.

Gosh!

Tumor · « **Reply #111 on:** June 11, 2002, 04:55:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Xjazz

I take 1. and 4. no need to ask why, just take a look where Im from.

..??....Brainfreeze?

akak · « **Reply #112 on:** June 11, 2002, 05:12:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
AKAK posted: My first clue that our mr. ripley is one to open his mouth without engaging his brain is when he persisted in arguing about Windows XP and the alt-tab psychedelic experience. As anyone with an Nvidia board and XP can tell ya, it's not the sync rate, it's the palletized textures that cause this.

To prove his ignorance I'll bet he'll continue with this argument even now. My question still stands mr. sid or ripley or whatever the hell you go by, do you have Windows XP even yet?

Now, AKAK, you must have missed all the grateful players who downloaded the patch from the locations I provided them. I helped people to fix the problem during a time when hardly nobody knew of a fix. Thanks a lot for trying to (again, wrongfully) supply people with completely wrong facts.

The fact remains that if you won't run the refresh rate fix your games will most likely run at 60hz. This was the primary reason for the corruption.

Disabling palettized textures must change the way AH handles textures in a way that circumvents the problem.. That however does not mean the refresh rate / color depth problem has disappeared.

I'm happy AKAK if you really ignored all this and currently play your games at 60hz refresh rate, because you really deserve the headaches.

Before you accuse someone of posted or supplying wrong facts, I suggest you pull your head out of your arse and look who left the post. You'll notice that the poster is AKIron and not me, the one and only Ack-Ack. I forgive your little error since I'm quite used to them by now and expect nothing else from you.

Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders

akak · « **Reply #113 on:** June 11, 2002, 05:19:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
I tried a couple of different programs that set the refresh rate for directx. It would seem reasonable to assume that if something worked in W2K it should work in WinXP. Just doesn't seem to be the case this time.

You might want to go to Guru3D and download the Win2k/XP refresh rate fix. Another good recommendation is do download MultiRes v.1.40 so you can change your refresh rates easily.

Ack-Ack

AKIron · « **Reply #114 on:** June 11, 2002, 06:23:46 PM »

Thanks for the tip but I never had a problem setting my refresh rate. At the risk of starting another debate I'll say it isn't the refresh rate that causes the alt-tab problem in windows XP.

Toad · « **Reply #115 on:** June 11, 2002, 07:10:42 PM »

When "the end is near" for any country that is about to reset the fighting ISN'T going to be "near normal".. whatever "normal" is supposed to be.

When any country is about to be reset, they are getting hammered. It's how you reset a country, right? Crush them? Yes?

Excuse me but I'm starting to think some folks think resets are somehow avoidable or "bad for the game" or should follow some sort of "rules of fair resetting".

The whole point of the strategy in the MA war is to take the other guys bases... I think. Isn't it?

So when that task is nearly accomplished there is NO WAY you are going to make it fun for the guys that are getting hammered and about to be reset.

IMO.

Am I missing something here?

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #116 on:** June 12, 2002, 01:43:31 AM »

On a second thought; nevermind.

Have a nice life Ack Ack.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #117 on:** June 12, 2002, 02:29:36 AM »

In a way you are missing something Toad..

You see, the point we're after here is to figure out ways on how to keep the game fun for all sides at maximum amount of time. Presently if the reset gets delayed because the two larger countries start shooting it out between themselves, the country being reseted will be totally down for hours. The fight won't end untill another side gives up and captures finally the last required field. During that time the reseted country can just watch things happen, logout or take off and get vulched. It's common to see a 'losing' side gift-wrap a field to the reseted one just to deny the reset from the winning side..

If reset would occur with more bases left intact, all sides could keep on fighting untill one side achieves the required % of captured fields required for reset. That would probably speed up the reset also because the attacking countries couldn't stop all activity of the smallest one just to continue the fight elsewhere.

If you compare the situation to the real world, how often do you see a country fight up untill its very last town, very last field untill they surrender? Never. Simply because everyone knows it would be insane to waste resources and lives when facing a certain defeat anyway.

Nazi Germany even caved in before their last village was occupied..

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #118 on:** June 12, 2002, 02:53:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Am I missing something here?

Of course, you simply justify the system as it works now cause this is how RL works. But IMO the system is wrong and dont represent the real world rules.

If you want to keep tied to the real world, then you better take into consideration the casualities (not a factor in AH). For example, Bishorcs would never achieved a single reset with casualities being a factor. Yesterday, as an example, I saw four consecutive bishorc hordes vaporized by the same rook defenders in less than 20 minutes. In RL, bishorcs would have been running out of man power and planes so quickly that the reset would have been achieved in less than two hours with the bish surrending.

Is the reset the objetive? yes.
Do you need to crush the fun of a lot of players to achieve that? Not necessary. There are a zillion of ways to configure the reset parameters and to ensure that outnumbered/gangbanged countries may keep fighting and having some fun all the time.

Toad · « **Reply #119 on:** June 12, 2002, 05:12:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
There are a zillion of ways to configure the reset parameters and to ensure that outnumbered/gangbanged countries may keep fighting and having some fun all the time.

Well, I'm a curious guy.

Why don't you just tell me TWO of the ways you are going to make being reset "fun" for the losing country.

Thanks.