Author Topic: Subs!  (Read 1241 times)

Rojo

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Subs!
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2001, 12:08:00 PM »
Me thinks that sea critter is overmodelled.  Seriously, if you're interested in undersea warfare in WWII, you should read both "Run Silent, Run Deep" to get the American POV, then read "Das Boot" to see the other side of the coin.  It's interesting to note how the success curves for the US Navy subs in the Pacific was the inverse of the German Navy's experience in the Atlantic.

In any event, those two titles contain a wealth of info on how subs operated in WWII.  Generally speaking, subs only operated on the surface during the day when they were outside enemy aircover.  With an air threat, they ran submerged from sun up to sun down (unless there was foul weather; then they took advantage of its cover), then ran on the surface during the night to recharge air/batteries.  Normal submerged cruising speed was on the order of 4 knots, surfaced it was 12 to 16 (though 16 knots used an alarming amount of fuel).  

Eventually, even the night gave the German U-boats no security to run on the surface. The British development of aircraft borne milimeter-band surface search radar forced the development of the schnorkel, but even that ingenious device was soon negated by continued improvements in radar technologies.  Eventually, the Germans developed radar absorming material (RAM), but even this proved inadequate in the end.

The point of the interview article you should most appreciate is the part about how HTC looks to you, the player community to figure out what works and what doesn't.  When subs at last join the AH stable of vehicles, it will be a fairly rudimentary implementation at first.  It is the line drawing, to which we (the player community) will than add color, hue, and texture too.  So keep those ideas coming, and don't get discouraged if the first release doesn't have all the bells and whistles you'd like.  Just as ground vehicles were more eye-candy than true simulation when first released, so too will subs and ground troops start out pretty simply, to be fleshed out and improved as time and input allows.

Offline SunKing

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Subs!
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2001, 01:52:00 PM »
I'm lost here. What purpose will subs have in the game if they are controlled the same way as the CV? Point on the map and hope they intercept a fleet then man the gun when in range?

 

Offline BenDover

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Subs!
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2001, 02:15:00 PM »
i was one of those who surgested the u-boat <pauses for clapping  :)>, now flying boats would have a purpose,bring on the flying boats!!

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: BenDover ]

Offline SKurj

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Subs!
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2001, 02:23:00 PM »
Before y'all get carried away, please recall the timeline for the addition of subs from the interview....a YEAR.


SKurj

Offline BenDover

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Subs!
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2001, 02:51:00 PM »
spoil sport!!!  :p

Rojo

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Subs!
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2001, 02:59:00 PM »
SunKing, if I understood HiTech's comments, what he was talking about was allowing you to set waypoint for the sub to get it within range of a target without having to be at the con the whole time.  At anytime along the plotted route, you would be able to jump into a control room and begin conning a boat manually.  He also referred to subs travelling in wolfpacks, and inferred that it was the wolfpack's course that was plotted.  

What might that mean (and understand that I don't think HiTech and Pyro have worked out any details yet) is that the wolfpack will be treated like a mobile U-boat spawn point, in the same manner as the fleets can spawn PT boats.  You direct it to the vicinity of an enemy target (fleet or convoy), then spawn an individual submarine to actually make the attack.  I may be off here, because you can read so much into what he did and didn't say in the interview.

The main concern in the above implemenation is, how would an enemy attack the wolfpack itself?  A fleet you can attempt to sink if it gets to close to something you're trying to protect, thereby preventing PT boats and other things from spawning.  How would you go about sinking a wolfpack?  Perhaps you would have to attack and destroy/capture submarine pens to prevent sub spawning.  Maybe there would be a submarine tender with escorts that would be involved somehow.  Again, the only thing we know for certain is that there will be subs, and that we won't have to spend hours locked into a vitual steal coffin to get into attack position.

Offline miko2d

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Subs!
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2001, 03:01:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunKing:
[QB]What purpose will subs have in the game if they are controlled the same way as the CV? Point on the map and hope they intercept a fleet then man the gun when in range?QB]
Exactly! Or, rather  the torpedo tube.

 I was much more exited about the next immediate project - one pilot being able to control 4 bombers. The end to pinpoint hi-alt bombing. Carpet bombing is coming.
 Tactical dive-bombers and jabo will be given reason to exist.

 miko

Offline zarkov

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Subs!
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2001, 03:17:00 PM »
I think the simplest thing would be to make U-boats and subs "persistent" and have the way-points of their patrol route set by a person with "rank" - until it is "manned", it will follow the route set by the way-points and hopefully RTB by the end of its patrol.  At any time that an enemy convoy is "sighted" by the U-boat/sub, it is indicated on the boat's symbol on the map so player's will know when they can jump in to man it.  Also, the route taken by the U-boat can be changed in "mid-patrol" if new information on the where-abouts of convoys is discovered, i.e. via surface or air sightings.  Boats can also be resupplied by surface subs and boats.  Heck, you could also stick in surface merchant raiders as well, controlled by the same principle.

Offline Nifty

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Subs!
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2001, 03:34:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d:
Tactical dive-bombers and jabo will be given reason to exist.
 miko

Already a reason for it, miko...  it's FUN!   :)
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline streakeagle

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Subs!
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2001, 08:01:00 PM »
Will there be "perk" subs?  :D The late model German boats had hulls, sonars, and torpedoes that were the foundation of both U.S. and Soviet sub technology until nuclear power and digital electronics permitted supplanting them.

The digital AN/BQR-21 I used on Dolphin was the digitally scanned development of the AN/BQR-2 which was virtually identical to the advanced German passive sonar based on a mechancally scanned cylindrical array. For reference: the AN/BQR-2 used a geared streering wheel to steer the listening beam just like WWII passive sonar. The BQR-21 has a joystick  :)

I am not sure I would bother to play a sub in a flight sim. But if it is well modeled, all the ex-sonar techs and fire-control technicians will kill less experienced personnel  :p
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Offline zarkov

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Subs!
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2001, 10:16:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by streakeagle:
I am not sure I would bother to play a sub in a flight sim. But if it is well modeled, all the ex-sonar techs and fire-control technicians will kill less experienced personnel   :p

Hmmm...not sure about that...sonar back then was really primitive...as was torpedo fire-control.  I suspect everyone would be starting at close to page-1 if and when they are introduced.

Offline Gie

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Subs!
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2001, 10:52:00 AM »
All you forget most important reason subs are for :

park sub near port and vulch fleet !

  :D   :D   :D