Graduated perk plan

[hblair]

[I typed this up before I was aware of Rip's post. This more or less deals with perk adjustments, not an RPS, which might not be a bad idea at all]

Aces High started in late war. It was easy for LA7's 109G10's and P51d's to coexist in the same pond. As planes were added, they of course went in the direction of earlier in the war. Now that we're getting into the realm of early war (F4F, A6M2, etc.) These planes will of course, not be able to compete toe to toe with an LA7 or 109g10. Sure, some talented veteran pilots will likely use them for field defense and some pilots can probably put up some good stats in these early planes. But they will not play any kind of major role in the manin arena the way it is now. My squad will likely fly some ill-fated P40B fighter sweeps if for nothing else some good screenshots. But when we see the two hi N1K's coming in the parties gonna be over.

I'd like to see the late war planes perked. Back when I was helping in the Combat Theater, I ran a setup that included all planes in the game in an axis/allied situation. This is the table I used. And here is the results of plane usage at the end of that week. With these settings we were able to keep the planes pretty much evened out. Of course you'll have planes like the spitfires that are going to be popular no matter what and shouldn't be perked because they aren't late war enough. Keep in mind that it was axis vs. allied so we had to perk a plane or two on the allied side a little heavier simply because the allied had a huge bomber/ ground attack advantage. An MA perk setup would have to be less restrictive IMO. But I think a system like this would work well in the MA. Seems like we had 80 pilots in the arena during the first span we ran it. It was pretty popular.

I just feel strongly that there is good reason to perk the late war rides with this next version. I think this is the time to do it.
And for people who don't wanna see past their own noses. I'm not trying to TELL you what to fly, I just want to see an environment created where virtually ALL planes can be somewhat competitive and be flown by a non-veteran without getting reamed.

[J_A_B]

I say do this in a second MA.   I wouldn't fly with such a system limiting my fun, and if that was the only system in AH I'd quit.

Just say YES to multiple arenas, or multiple areas within one arena (tm Lazs)

J_A_B

[Montezuma]

Originally posted by hblair


I don't think the P-51D will ever be perked in the MA.   It is the most famous US fighter and one that newbies want to fly, even though they will likely auger in it.  Fighters should be (and largely are) perked in the MA if their overall performance and capabilities greatly exceed the P-51D, the 'mid 1944' standard for an MA has been around since Air Warrior.

I don't know why people worry about early war planes not being used enough.  They get plenty of action in events.  If I'm scheduled to fly a Hurricane I in a ToD or something, I'll take that turkey up in MA just to practice.

[Steven]

Hblair:  I don't know what country you fly, but I'd like to participate in some P-40B sweeps myself.

JAB:  It's all about you.  Think about this though:  Your P51 flying above my F4F-4 or P-40B is ruinning my fun.  WW2 didn't only take place in 1944/45 and I'm certain there are many people who enjoy the early war aircraft.  Thanks for being such a sport.


In reviewing the new pie-chart MA map, it looks like each country is on each of the three slices of the map.  Does this mean we'll see Lazs' suggestion put to use where there are "arenas" within an arena?

[Kweassa]

I agree very much with hblair.

 Montezuma, to look at it in another aspect, hopefully, if the P-51D is really so famous and adored, perking it might actually motivate newbies to learn and practice careful flying so they may save some points to fly the P-51D.

 Planes like Yak-9T or La-5FN, Macchi 205 is pretty much competent, but it is so much overlooked and underrated because people will simply follow "the strongest". If the late war super-speeders/performers such as N1K2, La-7, Bf109G-10, P-51D and etc are perked lightly we may get to see more various alternatives like the Ki-61, La-5FN, Bf109G-2 or G-6 and P-51B.

ps) I seem to remember the Typhoon we have is a 1944 version, not the early 1942 version with coherent problems. If so, the Typhie should suffer a perk(very light one.. 2~3 points?) too.

[J_A_B]

"JAB: It's all about you. Think about this though: Your P51 flying above my F4F-4 or P-40B is ruinning my fun."

I see what you're saying....but I think that my P-51D appearing above your F4F wouldn't ruin your fun any more than my appearing over your LA5 or 109G10.  Then again, it'd be more truthful for me to say my P-51 appearing over your plane could hardly be classified as a threat, seeing as I lack any sembelance of skill.  I do a better job lawndarting then killing stuff.

Still, I have nothing at all against the guys who want their own little area for the early-war planes only, be it a separate "area" or a new MA entirely.  In fact, I sincerely hope you get such an area.  I of all people can understand the viewpoint of those who like a certain airplane.   However, I will fight against calls to change the entire MA--the only MA we have for now--because doing such would ruin the game for me and those like me.  Surely you can't blame me for that!

I hope with the upcomming "pizza" map AH will be able to support BOTH our preferences.   Then this discussion will be unnecessary  

J_A_B

[SOUP]

I would like to see various levels of perk points assigned to all airplanes.  The early war model airplanes being exempt.  

I would also like to see a rolling plane set.  Start each camp with early model planes and then phase in the late model airplanes.

If we lightly perk mid war planes and more highly perk the very late uber planes we gain several things.

You have to earn the right to fly them.  You can't play Banzai Warrior very long before you end up flying only the early war rides.

The strategy in the MA will have to change a bit to still accomplish goals etc without massive suicide runs, but it will add to the challenge and playability not the opposite.

One jagdflieger's opinion mind you.

[KG45]

I think perked planes are a good idea for game balance.

I think where some us differ on a/c and their roles in the game is this; some players think of AH as WWII simulator. I think of it as a flight simulator w/ WWII era a/c. i never think in terms of allied/axis. it don't make much sense if your flying in a  mission with 110's for jabo, and spits for escort, attacking a base defended by la7s and n1ks. i mostly like flying the high performance a/c of the late war set, put will jump in whatever it takes to do the job.

personally, i'd like to see arenas set up something like AW, w/ european plane sets in one theater, and pacific planes in another.
f6f were faster than 90% of the jap planes they faced, but they are a little on the slow side compared to LW rides.

[LePaul]

While I agree with most of what you are saying, hblair, I think it just won't happen in the Main Arena.  Its too stringent...for diehards that desire a sense of realism, yes, its a good idea.  But the Main Arena is pretty much "anything goes", as you know.  Newbies to Aces.

Good points, I just do not think it'll happen.  Especially with 2-week trials and such desiring to fly the P-51, P-38s, etc.

I'd love to see a variation of the Combat Theater happen...call it a Realism Arena where much more is perked, killshooter is off and many other realism issues are cranked up.

[popeye]

"call it a Realism Arena where much more is perked, killshooter is off and many other realism issues are cranked up.


What do perks have to do with realism?  The perk system is about the "gamiest" feature of the game.

[Steven]

It has nothing to do with "realism", but rather, giving those of us who have a great affinity for the early-war aircraft a fighting chance.

[popeye]

Perking late war planes does little to enhance game play for those who like early war planes.  It only means that the most skilled players will be the ones in the late war rides.

The perk system is only good for limiting the use of really exotic planes that would "unbalance" game play.  As I understand it, that's what it is designed to do.  Extending it to perk the majority of planes would only mean that newbies and occasional players would become cannon fodder for the more skilled players.

[Soda]

Popeye,
  I disagree, the problem with the perking in the MA is that almost all the perked planes are super expensive and exotic.  They need to be perked to high values because even against the top performers several of them are clearly superior.  That said, I think some of them are overexpensive too but that's a completely different discussion.  I'm not convinced it would entirely work in the MA though. Then again, with the larger maps coming it is probably a bad time to split the MA numbers into 2 arenas by suggesting to create another.

  In the CT when HBlair set up a "light" perking environment it promoted stepping up through planes.  It brought what were average aircraft more into use though it could never really entice people to fly low end aircraft.  The best part was that you knew you could afford to fly a better plane after even a single sortie and if you could land 2 or 3 kills chances were you could fly almost any plane in the perked set.  The highest perk was only something like 6 points (outside of things like the Me262 which were higher).  It was like taking little steps, not large leaps up the ladder.  For something like the 190 it meant you saw 190A5's, A8's and D9's all mixed together, starting with A5 guys trying to get a couple of points to upgrade to a A8 or D9.  You were never sure if you were facing a D9 or A5 until you got close enough to tell, and that made your encounters less predictable.

  I just look at something like the C-Hog in the MA.  For all the AH historians who have been around a while they will remember the banter and arguments that went on over that aircraft.  Some claimed it was too powerful, I tended to agree, and voila they perked it 8 points.  Some people complained at the time but I haven't heard a complaint about it in a long time now.  Tour after tour it registers a lot of kills and a lot of people fly it.  At 8 perk points it found a happy medium, it was a perk plane everyone could afford to fly at least once a night, not like a SpitXIV or Me262 which you might be lucky to fly once a month.  Better still, if you lost your C-Hog you weren't crying that you got ripped off of 200 perkies because of a disco... people just didn't care since it was only 8 perks and you could get that many by upping 1 sortie in a La5 and shooting down 3 planes.  Anybody, rookie or not, could probably earn the 8 perks required to fly it and then get to savoir the firepower and dive performance of the C-Hog.  Most people feel the 8 points are worth it but also respect that it was 8 points and don't just throw them away.

-Soda
The Assassins.

[Steven]

I think a graduated perk price scheme would actually help as opposed to a strict non-varying perk scheme.  That's if I understand this right.  As the time-period moves on, those late-war rides start becoming cheaper and more applicable.  You are right though, IMO, about how perk pricing really benefits the better players more no matter what the perk price scheme is.  That's why I'd like to see an experiment where player's rank can modify the perks awarded.  Shooting down a newbie who was flying a Yak isn't the same as shooting down one of the best ranked players who was flying a Yak and the perks awarded should take this into account.  Heck, if any of you numnuts shoot me down, you shoot get negative perks 'cause I don't know what the heck I'm doing when in a fight.  My fancy combat maneuvers come from closing my eyes, poking my tongue out of the corner of my mouth due to fear and concentration and dropping my joystick to the floor to play soccer (err, futball) with it.

[SOUP]

Like Soda has said with the C- Hog, perk all planes a little bit.. some more than others.. put some worth into the planes.  Then as one loses them fast enough.. one ends up in the IL-2 or the C47.