Author Topic: For comparison: Bearcat & Hellcat jpg (large) (Read 1748 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #30 on:** July 01, 2002, 04:48:16 PM »

The crowd that would make the Kurt Tank jokes I guess.

Staga · « **Reply #31 on:** July 01, 2002, 05:05:27 PM »

funkedup · « **Reply #32 on:** July 01, 2002, 05:21:59 PM »

If you take a long hard look at the Bearcat you will see it's definitely a descendant of the Hellcat. The only thing that's really like the 190 is the routing of the engine exhaust. I think they definitely got this idea from the Fw. The same configuration was used on the La-5, La-7, Ki-100, and Sea Fury as well.

john9001 · « **Reply #33 on:** July 01, 2002, 06:01:50 PM »

why didn't the germans use the heinkel wing on the 109 and 190, confused, the british steal the uber german wing for the spit but the germans ignore it ,if it was so great why not use it on 109 an 190???

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #34 on:** July 01, 2002, 06:11:15 PM »

The germans did use that wing on fighters. Go look up the Heinkel competitor to the Bf109.

Steven · « **Reply #35 on:** July 01, 2002, 06:15:43 PM »

All we have to do is dig up evidence of someone at Grumman stating that sticking a R2800 onto a Zeke would make it a world beater... and then we have evidence the Bearcat copies the Zeke too.

The proof is in the pudding and when you look at the Bearcat and FW you see no truly visible design influence other than the normal trend going on in every country. Bigger engine + smaller airframe.

<>
<>>

Please, please, please....can't I have a Bearcat in the MA?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #36 on:** July 01, 2002, 06:16:08 PM »

Funked the thing thats like the FW190 in bearcat is not neccesarily structural, I never said it was copy or duplicte thats what the Kurt Tank joke idiots say, I did say it was based on the FW190 concept. And Guess what its an FW190 size/type/weight plane with an R2800.

Thats all I ever try to say, the idiots just wanna blow it out of proportion.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #37 on:** July 01, 2002, 06:23:02 PM »

Steven:

Robert Hall and Leroy Grumman designed the F8F on their own initiative starting in Late 1943 just after they returned to USA from england where thry flew FW190s. Then they design a plane with nearly identical dimensions.

There was no US navy order for a light fighter.

There was no Grumman project for a light small follow-on to F6F.

There was a Grumman project in late 1943 for a light small fighter with an R2800 after Bob Hall and Leroy Grumman test flew and examined FW190 in england during mid-late 1943. Bob Hall said again "if we put an R2800 in this thing we have world beater". And thats what they did. They started a project upon their return of a light, small , fighter with an R2800.

Thats the extent of my point, I never said it was a bolt for bolt copy, nor a duplicate, but definitely I will argue F8F project idea was based on Hall's experience with FW190 just before.

funkedup · « **Reply #38 on:** July 01, 2002, 06:41:38 PM »

You gotta remember that Grumman had already built a 190-sized fighter with a radial. It's called a Wildcat. And I still maintain that the exhaust routing on the F8F, Ki-100, La-5, La-7, and Sea Fury was obviously inspired by the 190.

Wing Span: 11.58m Length: 8.76m Height: 2.81m Wing Area: 24.15m2
Wing Span: 10.92m Length: 8.61m Height: 4.22m Wing Area: 22.67m2
Wing Span: 10.50m Length: 10.20m Height: 3.35m Wing Area: 18.30m2
Which pair is most similar?

Pongo · « **Reply #39 on:** July 01, 2002, 08:35:38 PM »

Thats all I was thinking funked. The much tighter cowl arround the radial.

Samm · « **Reply #40 on:** July 01, 2002, 09:04:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by K West
As for the N1K2? Not even close. Completely different in just about all aspects.

Why do you say that ? It looks very much like a n1k2 don't you think ?

Samm · « **Reply #41 on:** July 01, 2002, 09:20:09 PM »

Pei · « **Reply #42 on:** July 01, 2002, 09:52:01 PM »

More than the exhaust configuration was copied from the 190 for the Hawker Sea Fury (or to be more exact for the Hawker Tempest MKII - the Sea Fury was based on the the Tempest and used the same engine mounting as the MkII): The whole close cowled radial engine setup using an engine driven fan was used with some modification for the Centaurus engine and British equipement. Hawkers also experimented with Sabre engined Tempests using anular radiatior system suspiciously similar to the 190D and ducted spinner setup similar to the original 190 prototypes.

I rather suspect the La5 and La7 followed a similar path: the exhaust is similar and I've seen pictures which seem to show fan blades similar to the 190s through the gap between the cowling adn the spinner. I'd be interested to see anything confirming or denying this.

Other than some very gross similarities (both a/c are small radial engined fighters) I can't see any relationship between the 190 and the F8F. While the grumman team may well have had chance to play with the 190 (and any other captured German a/c) so did every fighter producer in the UK and the US. Grumman in particular had a history of producing small radial engined fighters. Like Funked I can't see any real correlation between the two apart from the exhausts.

btw. Kurt Tank invented Kurt Tank

Hristo · « **Reply #43 on:** July 01, 2002, 10:33:02 PM »

Funny thread...while most of us look at this 'similarities' as a joke, there are some who are too serious about it:

A: "This thing looks like 190, Grumman never knew how to build planes until they copied 190. It is all obvious."

B: "No, no, you are crazy ! It looks nothing like 190, that can't be, that is impossible, it is blasphemy...I'll die before I admit it !"

kiddies, eh ?

Steven · « **Reply #44 on:** July 02, 2002, 01:17:24 AM »

Quote

Thats the extent of my point, I never said it was a bolt for bolt copy, nor a duplicate, but definitely I will argue F8F project idea was based on Hall's experience with FW190 just before.

Grun, if you think the people at Grumman only looked at the FW then you are cracked. And saying that an FW with an R2800 engine would be a world-beater doesn't mean squat in terms of where influence was gained. Basically, Grumman attempted to build a carrier-borne interceptor with excellent climb and that means power/weight ratio; i.e., small airframe + big engine.

At first I thought you were just having fun with this but now I'm not so sure. I have no problem if you personally want to believe this is the case based on one comment, but if you state it publicly I suspect you will have to deal with the rest of us.

"A GAU8 on an FW would be a world beater...woops, the A10 must owe its design to Kurt Tank."