Open letter for HTC.

[Minotaur]

I don't know about his one.      

I came to AH from AW with very little experience in that sim nor multiplayer.  Other than AW, my experience was from playing "boxed" jet sims and lots of them.  I have never flown a real aircraft where I have been responsible for trim.  

My first take off playing AH, was .34 beta.  Really, I should re-state.  My first attempted take off.  For my first 30 hours playing AH 95% of them were just trying to learn how to get the "DAMN" thing off the ground.

So...

I finally got it off the ground.  In doing that I found out that full left aileron control input would not stop a right aileron roll.  I found it easier to auger and not to fight the inevitable.  About that time is when the concept of using trim came into my mind.

After some bookwork, I actually got airborne from the runway, not using my pattended "Hang Glider" tactic for take off.  While in flight, no matter what I did, I was constantly trimming.  I did not think about air combat I was thinking about how to trim and setting up my HOTAS.  Another 10-15 hours of play goes bye-bye.

Argh!!!  This damn thing won't fly straight and level for more than 3 seconds.  80% of my focus was keeping the plane in trim.  For me this game was a "Trim Sim", not a "Combat Sim".  

Often I would get blown out of the sky, to my amazement, by a plane flying straight and level.  I knew that it had to be possible.  But how?

Anyone following my piont?  Having FUN yet?  Nope, but I am stalwart and beta was for free.  I had as much time as I needed to learn.

Finally, one day in the MA, a friendly fellow named Chaunc explained to me how to use "AutoTrim".  More importantly, he explained that "Everyone uses it!".

WTF OVER!!!!  You have got to be flippin kidding me right?  This is HARDCORE, not some EZ-DWEEB sim.  

Man, knowing about "AutoTrim" totally broke my heart.  That knowledge destroyed my faith in what I visualized to be a "Realistic WW2 Flight Sim".  I knew beyond any shadow of any doubt that WW2 fighter planes did not have such an AutoPilot feature.  

Mad as hell I knew this was total BS.  How could HTC do such an aweful thing?   I was crushed.  I was devastated.  I berated the heavens and the earth.  I whined on this BBS!      

But....

I am still playing AH.  I am still having lots of fun.  I am now still a happy paying customer.

Good Luck to All!      

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"hehehe...I like this thread squealing Bastids!"
SOB

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 09-04-2000).]

[Replicant]

Please excuse my ignorance (not an expert here!) but how will it actually work?  I am under the impression that the EZ trim will keep correcting to the best setting whatever manouvre you are doing.  Is this correct?  In other words, if you pull a hard turn it may auto trim to give you more turn but too much G then it will trim down?  

BUT anyway, I get the general idea and yeah RAM, a lot of what you said made enough sense to me!  

Regards

'Nexx'

[VISCONTI]

Probably i'm not the right person to say that but....

When i signed up i was an AW3 pilot in FR arena, AW3 was a very simple flight sim (dogfight are hard even in AW3 and SA is important like here in AH) 9.90$/month.

I signed up to AH cause the presence of italian AC (even if in the early stage of AH where completely bad modelled).

I was very reluctant to spend 30$/month but here i have found italian AC. I have bring here all my squad mates from AW3 and found new friends here.

I have spend 2 weeks before perform a decent take off and a successfull landing.

I have found a very poor # of AC and only 1 (2 after a short period) bombers and no ground attack planes, but i signed up cause i have see in this game a very big numbers of opportunity.

Now whe have a map editor for scenrios (very good), some more AC, no bombers, no ground attack planes and no scenarios AC.

Where HTC is heading??? dunno  

Whe still dont have an almost complete AC types to perform a decent scenario, we have only late war AC.

If i am a new customer and i look to AH now i see only a late war dogfight game whit 90% of HO kills. (very boring IMO)  30$/months for only a limited # of AC.

I think people play at AW3, WB, FA cause these sims are more complete and whit a low price, not cause they are more simple to learn, u always need SA, u always need to know how others fighters perform, ecc...

When i was in AW3 i never think to join WB cause he was at least like AW3 in planeset but more expensive, never think about the complexity of the FM. In AW3 i have all the planes to perform ground attak, strategic bomber, fighters, like in WB but at a low price, and incredible scenarios.

Here in AH we have a very good FM (some things must be corrected IMO) that make AH an incredible game, but this incredible game is limited to 5-6 AC (F4UC, Fw190A5, Bf109G10, P-47, P-51, spit IX).
How to correct that MA obsession??? dunno, only players decide to bring a G10 instead of a G6 or G2 (last night i have meet a very good g6 pilots wow) only players decide to fly whit C hog instead of D hog, ecc...

Now i think HTC decided to indroduce early war planes, probably they will correct the MG capability and bring to a suffisent level only MG mounted AC.

Dunno if early war vs late war plane in the same arena is possible, that depends only to players.
I see people fly only C hog cause of the ultra power cannons, probably they can be very good D hog pilots but they prefer to HO whit the korea AC.
Probably these are the kind of people that love to fight C hog vs Bf109E, i really disagree whit them.

The point is:

- 30$/months mean: dedicated customers
- limited # of AC mean: no competition vs others sim
- Ez mode mean: dedicated players will leave
- good FM mean: dedicated customer and a more challenging game for new players


IMO i think we have to raise the level of the game giving more things to players, not giving at players a game like others whit less AC and 30$/month.

Sry i really hope u all start to learn italian ASAP, is very frustrating try to explain that in a foreing language   .

sry for the confusion on this post.


good post RAM <S>


[This message has been edited by VISCONTI (edited 09-04-2000).]

[Creamo]

HAving a Saitek HOTAS is damn near combat trim. Its a 1 finger operation that I hardly think about now really.Its all second nature. If things get to far outta wack I just hit "X" anyway.

Actually, trim never seemed to be a big deal. Seems like a silly thing to go quit over. I find the challenge here is to figure out what plane can do what, turn rates, top speed etc...(poor documentation makes it extremely hard) and mostly ACM and SA.

 If someone starts out flying you cause of combat trim and is a newbie, you just might suck, but that aint going to be the case.

Regardless, I cant wait for my first Dora flight in Combat Trim. Ill post the picture for you.  

[Tac]

RAM's just worried that he will get shot down by 109's and he wont be able to watch them auger on his 6 any more.     (j/k).


Visconti: Your post is very clear bud, good points! One day the 202 will shoot something else than .22 caliber rubber bullets, hang in there  

[lasse]

What Maniac said.

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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-

[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 09-04-2000).]

[AKDejaVu]

 

The way HT explained it, Combat Trim won't be like WB's "EZ Mode". Aircraft performance won't be enhanced over a properly trimmed plane.

Actually, the EXACT same thing was said about "EZ Mode".

I'm kinda wondering why HTC saw the need for the combat trim.  It doesn't seem as if the comunity was crying out for it.  Why put so much effort into it?  I just can't figure it out.  I'd really rather have one more aircraft (p40 comes to mind).

AKDejaVu

[CavemanJ]

DJV this may have come from a few threads discussing the excessive amounts of trim needed to stabalize a bird (ie: Yak9).

I'm kinda gettng a kick out of everyone condemning combat trim and talk of lost accounts because of it, before it even gets here.  Seems there was the same kinda racket about padlock not too long ago.

Yesterday (I think) in the arena HT mentioned the new combat trim.  From what I remember he said it would keep the kite close to trim for your speed.  The way I took his explanation was that it'll correct ailerons to reduce the tendency to roll as speed increases and correct the vators to reduce the tendency to nose up as speed increases.  Note, he said close to trim, not trimmed.  I got the impression that those who manually trim thier birds and leave the combat trim turned off will have a slight advantage over those using the combat trip (ie a better trimmed bird).

Now, for all you "hardcore realism/anti-EZmode" folks, where are all the comlaints about aileron trim on birds that had NO aileron trim?  109s and spits dinnae have aileron trim did they?  Sorry, not too familiar with which kites did and did not have trim wheels in the cockpits.  I can't see why all you folks who enjoy trim on birds that shouldna have it are even worried about the new combat trim, because you've already stepped outside the bounds of historic reality.

[indian]

I dont see any kind of auto trim beeing a bonus to flight. Tried EZmode in WB but could not get out of my own way, the combat arena I thought realy sucked couldnt use the full potential of the airplane at all. I cant see them putting in some aspect of the game that would make it an advantage to use. They might add something that could help the learning curve but not make it unfair to the hardcore simmers. I think this will be a mere training aid tht wont do to much, but lest all wait and see. One more thing a properly trimmed plane will only help it fly text book smooth, there isnt a HARDCORE SIMMER that flys a properly trimmed plane you use trim to augment a turn not maintain it, there is a difference.

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Indians Home page were links to help pages can be found.
Indian's Homepage

[Rock]

Don't know which model 109 this is but, this cockpit photo shows 2 trim devices(black wheels to the left of the seat).

 

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by CavemanJ:
109s and spits dinnae have aileron trim did they?

Rudder trim.. rudder trim.. not aileron trim.

[Pongo]

Some points.
Could it be that HT has done some exit surveys and knows that some of the guys that we have enjoyed flying with that left did so for this reason?
This game must be increadibly unrealisic allready if what you are saying is true. I never use trim for anything but keeping the nose down on my b26 during an egress or pulling a g10 out of a fast dive yet I feel I am at least moderatly proficient at ACM. Obviosly there is another level of detail that I have over-looked in the game. I will remap my 3rd top hat to trim and give it a wirl.  
I will continue to play and pay even if they model this feature and view lock and the ME262 and the Panzer V non perked and the Spit XIV and the F86H
Im in for the long run I think.

[HaHa]

Well I believe CT is an excellent idea.

I know nearly everyone in my squad (DoDs) dont fly AH because (which btw is being fixed in the next version):

1) the flight model is "wacky"
2) trimming all the time is quite annoying

Yes, it tries to separate the skilled pilots from the unskilled ones, but unfortunately I believe it separates the expensive gear from the bad gear.

Back in WB days I had a thrustmaster with a hat. That's all I needed to kick some butt. Now with AH I can't fly worth a crap, I always need one hand on the keyboard to do "trimming". Personally I don't feel like buying a $150 stick with 10+ buttons just so I can compete. I'm sure 95% of the general, online-gaming public would agree with me.

I'm not saying CT should be nearly as effective as manual trim but its definitely needed to help the "cheap sticks" out.

It's interesting that someone said we can vote with our CCs if we don't like CT. Hehe, well let me ask, "where the heck are you going to go for a more realistic WWII sim?"

Gimme a break and stop being elitests.

[wolf37]

hi all:

TRIM, what the hell do you mean, TRIM,
are you telling me I have to work the trim in here as well, well thank you for telling me.



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wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

[llbm_MOL]

Im with RAM on this one. Well put RAM.

LLB OUT!!!!!!!