Lost Wingtips vs. Ability to Land

[Xjazz]

"Now for the hard stuff - try landing without elevator and ailerons!! Dunno if I ever actually made it (that dmg happens rare enough alright) - use throttle in combination with rudder to control pitch, vice versa for yaw, rolling...  - the problem is that you have to stay fast in order to descend slowly - too fast for a landing... get slow and you won't have any control over pitch --> nose falls, so does plane!"

Have done that with P47 and F4Ud :-) Great fun!

[Soda]

I deadsticked a 190D9 last night missing a tip and it was as easy as can be.  Right tip was gone, engine starved of fuel getting back to base, glided it in and landed.  The touchdown was right on profile, very easy.

Flaps don't seem to help in the case of unbalanced lift.  The problem seems to be that on some planes there just isn't enough aileron authority to compensate for the unbalanced lift.  I've managed to dump the flaps out on just about every situation with a wingtip-less plane and it never made the difference between being successful and not.

Kanth,
  I'm thinking it was the left tip, the right tip I've tried many times and haven't had any success.  I've kept the speedo right at 199mph to try and maintain enough speed for control but couldn't.  I've had the flaps out and everything at lower speeds to try that and it also doesn't work.  In the previous version before they mutilated the roll rate I could land a Typhoon.  Now the Typhoon doesn't have enough aileron compensation to pull it off.  Maybe if the engine torque could be used to help you could do it but I haven't had the opportunity to try it.  I actually managed to land a SpitIX once that way, total fluke, but it worked.

I've tried a 109 before without success though it appeared it might be possible.  the Spit is really close too, but in 100 attempts I think I pulled it off once, so that counts as a no.

-Soda

[Snorkey]

The Israeli Airforce had one such incident

Unbelievable! But DON'T look at the picture until you read the story below! Read the article, then look at the picture.

A simulated dogfight training took place between two F-15D's and four A-4N Skyhawks over the skies of the Negev, Israel. The F-15D #957, (nicknamed 'Markia Shchakim', 5 killmarks) was used for the conversion of a new pilot in the squadron. Here is the description of the event as described in "Pressure suit":

"At some point I collided with one of the Skyhawks, at first I didn't realize it. I felt a big strike, and I thought we passed through the jet stream of one of the other aircraft. Before I could react, I saw the big fire ball created by the explosion of the Skyhawk.

The radio started to deliver calls saying that the Skyhawk pilot has ejected, and I understood that the fireball was the Skyhawk, that exploded, and the pilot was ejected automatically.

There was a tremendous fuel stream going out of my wing, and I understood it was badly damaged. The aircraft flew without control in a strange spiral. I reconnected the electric control to the control surfaces, and slowly gained control of the aircraft until I was straight and level again. It was clear to me that I had to eject. When I gained control I said : "Hey, wait, don't eject yet!" No warning light was on and the navigation computer worked as usual; (I just needed a warning light in my panel to indicate that I missed a wing...)." My instructor pilot ordered me to eject.

The wing is a fuel tank, and the fuel indicator showed 0.000 so I assumed that the jet stream sucked all the fuel out of the other tanks. However, I remembered that the valves operate only in one direction, so that I might have enough fuel to get to the nearest airfield and land. I worked like a machine, wasn't scared and didn't worry. All I knew was as long as the sucker flies, I'm gonna stay inside. I started to decrease the airsp! eed, but at that point one wing was not enough. So I went into a spin down and to the right. A second before I decided to eject, I pushed the throttle and lit the afterburner. I gained speed and thus got control of the aircraft again.

Next thing I did was lower the arresting hook. A few seconds later I touched the runway at 260 knots, about twice the recommended speed, and called the tower to erect the emergency recovery net. The hook was torn away from the fuselage because of the high speed, but I managed to stop 10 meters before the net. I turned back to shake the hand of my instructor, who had urged me to eject, and then I saw it for the first time - no wing !!!


The IAF (Israeli Air Force) contacted McDonnell Douglas and asked for information about possibility to land an F-15 with one wing. MD replied that this is aerodynamically impossible, as confirmed by computer simulations... Then they received the photo.... After two months the same F-15 got a new wing and returned to action. Special thanks to Tsahi Ben Ami.


This is what "Flight international" wrote about the incident: "The most outstanding Eagle save was by a pilot from a foreign Air Force".

During air combat training his two-seater F-15 was involved in a mid air collision with an A-4 Skyhawk.
The A-4 crashed, and the Eagle lost its right wing from about 2 ft. outboard. After some confusion between the instructor who said eject, and the student who outranked his instructor and said no, the F-15 was landed at it's desert base. Touching down at 290 knots, the hook was dropped for an approach end engagement. This slowed the F-15 to 100 knots, when the hook weak link sheared, and the aircraft was then braked conventionally.

It is said that the student was later demoted for disobeying his instructor, then promoted for saving the aircraft.

McDonnell Douglas attributes the saving of this aircraft to the amount of lift generated by the engine intake/body and "a hell of a good pilot".

[IFFbob]

I find that by rolling in aileron trim helps to level the aircraft.  As soon as I can I dial in flaps, it definitely helps level the aircraft.  The pony is very recoverable when missing a wingtip using the above method.  The P-47 is a bit tougher but doable.

[Soda]

So far we have:
YES
-------
190's - easy, done it even deadstick
P47  - easy
P38
La7 - just come in hot
Ta152
Hog - easy
P-51 - barely a challenge
F6F
N1K
La-5
Arado - Done this one too myself
Zeke - mine always burn, never lose tip.

NO
-------
Spits - did it once, in 100 tries.
Typhoon - I still don't believe it, tried dozens of times but nada.
Me262 ?
109's - someone mentioned the E can be landed and G10?  hmmm
110
Mossie
C205

-Soda
The Assassins.

[CMC Airboss]

Originally posted by 10Bears
forget landing a 262 w/ missing wingtip

Landing with one or both wingtips missing is possible with the Me 262.  I've done single wingtip landings several times, once with one engine dead.  I've performed two no-wingtip landings by using the rudder for roll control.  The approach to landing is very long, very flat and very high angle of attack.

The Mossie is the only airplane that has eluded any of my attempts at a controlled wheel landing with one wingtip missing.  Not enough aileron available, even with full opposite trim, to keep it level when slow.

MiG

[Soulyss]

I've landed F6F's without tips before, that plane flies fairly well with a wingtip missing.

I've had the opposite experience... to me the p51 seems much easier to land sans one wingtip than the F6F.  Maybe which wing has suffered the damage matters in the equation because of engine torque.  I've landed both the F6F and the P51 but the F6F I usually have to work harder at and have a much lower success rating.

[LePaul]

Dittos on the Me262....I over G'd and busted off both wingtips on one.  Limped home, making LONG SLOW turns for a LONG final approach (praying for no cons!) and managed to set her down with runway to spare.

No such luck on any Lancaster ive ever flown and lost a wingtip  

[Kirin]

Soda: I can 100% confirm landing a 1.5 winged 109! Posted some pics of it even - loong time ago - gonna do a search. Since I do a format c: every 1/2 year chances are slim that I find the film anywhere - but the post should be on the BBS somewhere!

[VWE001]

F4U-1D flies nicely without both wing tips...

[LLv34_Snefens]

Count me in on a 109 landing. It was way back in the beta terrain, and I just happend to set it down on a downslope. I seem to remeber this was before they increased lethality of the ground. Can't even remember if it was with or without gear.

Remeber those days? You could remove an entire wing of the enemy at alt of a couple of hundred feet, and you still couldn't be sure that he wouldn't just bounce up and down on the ground a bit before he came to a halt and exited. LOL
__________________
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Lentolaivue 34
My AH homepage

[UmmaGumma]

I was flying a Lanc in a shallow dive to get under clouds, building up speed when I heard structure stress groans, I hit "X" auto level . Both wingtips snapped off at the outward engines.     It handled well and flew fast and only had rudder to initiate turns.  I dumped the bombs I had left and stayed near clouds untill clear on the way back. Flaps were still working and I made an easy hot landing. I tried to do it again once but failed to duplicate. It would have been amusing to tour with some fighters without the tips.. new high speed perked Lanc.

[Fishu]

F4u can *fight* without wing tips.
I've heard of kills made with F4u from long time ago and also long time ago I've had attempt to fight in one without wingtips, was stabile, just lacking the ailerons.

Bf109 can land, but it is quite tough to do due to torque

Fw190 does it fairly easily, which saved me during 278 streak one time when B17 shot the tip off.

C202/205 can also land without wingtips, but will be quite funny to fly it since engine must be managed correctly or torque takes over.

long time ago also landed B17 without wingtip.. actually ditched and then "landed"

[Kirin]

...only 278? Thought you were beyond 300!

God, how I envyed you - well, I still do...
---
'Bout the clipped wing F4U - more than one of them escaped me after being released of a wingtip - at that time the "clipped wing F4U are faster than normal F4U"-theory grew amongst the community...
Some Allie(ns)d even supported that phenomenon with physical theories like less drag and stuff...

[mora]

I have landed a Lancaster without wingtips, ailerons, vertical stabs and elevators. I used speed and flaps for altitude control and engines for turn and sideslip control. I think I have a film somewhere...