Can I make a comment on Frame CO's?

[Ripsnort]

The CM of each frame hands down the orders to the Frame CO's of respective sides.  The Frame CO's then review it and make a plan.  I've seen some pretty complicated, detailed plans right down to the fuel load out for each flight micro-managed by the Frame CO...now thats fine if they want to do that, but if your a frame CO, keep in mind that most squadrons have been operating as a squadron for quite some time, and really don't need to be micro-managed right down to the point where you have to tell each squad whether to place the pee-tube on the right side of the aircraft, or the left side, so as your rudder travel doesn't interfere with the tube!

Short, simply, to the point...thats the best tactic.  Draw up a simply map, showing waypoints if you need to, for "Time on Target" coordination, suggest a fuel load out...but don't micro-manage frames too detailed...most of those frames go poorly because of confusion.  The less confusion by each squad CO, the better, IMO.

Flame away desktop generals!

[Sikboy]

I agree with Rip. I've only CO'd one frame and that was a last minute deal, but I did pretty much what he said. I told squad CO's where to be, and when to be there, and what they should be flying at that time and place. This was the BoB tod, so mission parameters were pretty simple, defend the fields/targets I've assigned. Don't get suckered by Fighters. I had one complicated mission design, but I gave that to my own squadron (more because it was pretty suicidal than because it was difficult to pull off).

Esme has a pretty good thread going about CO interaction, and I must say that I enjoy when the Side CO's work together and Squad CO's offer feedback. But for the most part, I've never gotten a plan that I had a problem with. There are times when it would help if certain Squad CO's would callaborate (this one time the NHs and Shills were both in B-17s, but we never got together on an actual flight plan, so we ended up seperating before we were even feet dry over Norway). But it works pretty well, all things considered.

-Sikboy

[Wotan]

Me, I give as many options as possible to the squad cos.

Last Frame of the 8th I had thought about restricting the 109s to no gondolas. They were ordered to get high and engage the 51s. No gondolas would have been the orders for my squad. However I thought it over most dont fly 109s like we do. 150 rounds runs out quick.

Gondolas however effect performance especially over 20k. As a side co I dont know what could be worse running out of ammo in a fight or not being able to get that extra fpm in a zoom climb. IO gave the gun load out option to the squad cos.

Fuel load out is almost always up to ther squad co.

[jordi]

I like to keep it SIMPLE when and where posible.

I MAY have a specific plan for specific Squads that they need to do things a certain way.

What BUGS me the most is not getting a reply that they recieved the orders or if I ask HOW MANY of thier squad will make it !

That is what tends to blow up any plan.

Squad XXX will fly TBM - Torps - Squad YYY Will fly TBM Bombs for 2 different types of missions.

If I do not hear back from them that they have recieved and understood the orders OR if I find out LATE that Squad XXX that I assume would show up with 10-12 guys will only show up with 6 can messthings up.

If I do not hear from someone I can only assume they will not be there and I will CHANGE the plans according ly.

The only thing I ASK for from other Squad CO's is the CURTESY to reply to 1 or 2 emails.

1. Yes I recieved and understood the orders.

2. Yes I plan to attend with X number of pilots.

Just those 2 answers alone makes the Side CO that much easier !

Nothing more FRUSTRATING than to have a Squad CO Show up ( or worse not at all and his XO has no idea of the plans ! ) on FRAME DAY 10 mins before takeoff and say - What are the plans - I forgot what they are ( or any other escuse for the day ).

Thanks,

Mike "DmdJordi" Bowman
DAMNED TOD CO

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by jordi
I like to keep it SIMPLE when and where posible.

I MAY have a specific plan for specific Squads that they need to do things a certain way.

What BUGS me the most is not getting a reply that they recieved the orders or if I ask HOW MANY of thier squad will make it !

That is what tends to blow up any plan.

Squad XXX will fly TBM - Torps - Squad YYY Will fly TBM Bombs for 2 different types of missions.

If I do not hear back from them that they have recieved and understood the orders OR if I find out LATE that Squad XXX that I assume would show up with 10-12 guys will only show up with 6 can messthings up.

If I do not hear from someone I can only assume they will not be there and I will CHANGE the plans according ly.

The only thing I ASK for from other Squad CO's is the CURTESY to reply to 1 or 2 emails.

1. Yes I recieved and understood the orders.

2. Yes I plan to attend with X number of pilots.

Just those 2 answers alone makes the Side CO that much easier !

Nothing more FRUSTRATING than to have a Squad CO Show up ( or worse not at all and his XO has no idea of the plans ! ) on FRAME DAY 10 mins before takeoff and say - What are the plans - I forgot what they are ( or any other escuse for the day ).

Thanks,

Mike "DmdJordi" Bowman
DAMNED TOD CO

Well, the X-number of pilots is predetermined prior to any event...each squad is expected to fulfill that requirement.  In some cases it doesn't happen, so personally I tend to take a small squad and place them with a large squad as sort of a "CYA" excercise.  In other words, you , Jordi, as a Frame CO, already have this information before hand, no need to ask squadron CO's how many they plan on having, they have already committed via the squad dossier.

I send out an email before each TOD to our squad, and ask who's gonna make the next TOD, then adjust my squad dossier to the replies.  By doing this, I always make the squad dossier estimate numbers.

[Ripsnort]

I might add, my biggest squeak is recieving the orders less than 24 hours before an event.  Though its happened only a couple of times (and once, understandbly), its a big pain when planning at a squadron level....

[jordi]

I suppose those Squad CO's that do not take the time to update thier Info are the same one who do not reply to emails anyway.

Especially by Frame #3 a Squad CO will have a good feel if he is going to be WAY under his commitment. It is those CO's that I would like to hear from so I can adjust the numbers as needed.

Mike "DmdJordi" Bowman
DAMNED TOD CO

[Ripsnort]

Rgr Jordi.

All in all, we've come along way in the TOD.  Things go relatively smooth, however I must admit, I attended a Sat. TOD lately, (won't say which frame) and the orders for the frame were, well, NOVEL length would best describe it

[funkedup]

I guess if you are dealing with amateurs it's best to devise an amateurish plan.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by funkedup
I guess if you are dealing with amateurs it's best to devise an amateurish plan.

How do you link "Short, to the point, concise", to "Amateurish"?

[Squire]

I have lead alot of WB event missions (and hopefully AH ones very soon), and I have to agree. Its a fine line between "over managing" and "no plan".

Common sense and experience dictates. I have never seen a 10 page "superplan" that ever came off in an event. Too many factors involved. Adrenalin is a big factor, everybody agrees to be smart untill they see a con they want to shoot!. Things go awry, air combat is the fastest most unforgiving arena for a plan with a flaw. Not like chess at all really. Well, sort of like chess where you have to move every 3 seconds.

Some squads are very experienced (and disciplined) and some are not so, but its probably a good thing to delegate some. A CO has to trust his subordinates to perform. Thats the bottom line. Squad COs and section leaders have to step up too.

Regrards.

[Wotan]

we can just go at it sand lot style

Rip go left 3./jg2 will do up the middle

5 misssissippi's right ?