Author Topic: Number 1 Fighter Rank (Read 715 times)

SirLoin · « **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2002, 12:07:58 PM »

get rid of kills per time..only rewards/encourages vulching..

Raly · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2002, 12:41:20 PM »

Wasn't the KI-100 basically a KI-61 with a different engine? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, while in my trusty La-5FN on the deck against a KI-61, I can account for the 61's durability (or else it was latency, but I don't believe so.) I must have put 15 - 20 rounds of shVAK 20mm before the KI-61 even began to show signs of damage.

My next flight was in a KI-61, and I can attest to its durability. I made the mistake of getting low, and slow, in the 61 only to have a P-47 keep diving in on me. Eventually the 47 wore me down and was able to score many hits on me before I finally hit the ground. The 61's dive rate, durability, liquid cooled engine, and cool paint scheme makes it a nice ride, IMHO.

Kratzer · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2002, 01:09:53 PM »

Ki61 rules - I'm flying it this tour, and doing better than I usually do.

eskimo2 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2002, 01:56:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Grimm

Now you want a real challange, I want to see the Guy with a 3:1 K/D in a Goonie

Is this close enough;

Tour 7:
eskimo has 22 kills and has been killed 8 times in the C-47A.

(I cheated)

funkedup · « **Reply #19 on:** July 13, 2002, 02:11:17 PM »

Ki-61 is a dog but it has great guns and dives well. The 20 mm are in the nose so they are excellent for snapshots. You have to leave yourself an escape route (keep your E up) but it's quite easy to kill in.

eskimo2 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 13, 2002, 02:21:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SirLoin
get rid of kills per time..only rewards/encourages vulching..

Kills per time also is the only thing that discourages:
cherry-picking,
always run-away P-51 or LA-7,
won't ever engage without alt., speed AND numerical advantage.

K/T also encourages base defence.
K/T is a reflection of a pilots willingness to engage.
K/T is a sign of a pilots willingness to fight against the odds.
K/T = aggressiveness.

IMO, K/T is second in importance only to K/D.
Although it's not factored in, pilot's plane type should be a score factor as well. The fact that players like Mitsu can be so dangerous in a relatively obsolete plane should be accounted for. There is a difference between doing well as a dedicated KI-61 driver verses flying the El Gay-Seven. All other stats being equal, the KI-61 pilot is most likely better than the LA-7 pilot. When you fly 300 mph planes, you fight to the death (you, him or them). When you fly speed rides, you can choose to run when the going gets rough.

I'm not trying to knock speedy plane drivers (OK, well maybe a bit

), but it's just not the same.

eskimo

Vortex · « **Reply #21 on:** July 13, 2002, 02:23:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lizard3
The correct answer to your inquiry UnD is, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the plane, its the pilot. Most esp. in this case.

Plane is everything. Pilot helps.

Pongo · « **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2002, 02:33:22 PM »

k/t = vulch which has nothing to do with aggressiness and little to do with skill. your kidding yourself. All K/T measures is your enemys willingness to spawn.

weaselsan · « **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2002, 02:34:30 PM »

Anyone can be #1 in fighters by haveing two accounts and two computers networked. Simply keep upping an AC in a remote area of the map and repeatedly shoot yourself down. Weaslsan landed 32 kills in a 202. I caught a guy doing this in AW. He had an outragous no. of points and was ranked #1. So I shot him down, And I really suck. I guess it's legal, your 14.95, your way of haveing fun.

eskimo2 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2002, 02:47:15 PM »

UnDeth,

Back to your original question, Mitsu/Hermit is as good of a pilot as you will find, in any ride. I'd rather face 3 average players all at once in late war rides, than him in anything.
The score system can be manipulated to make anyone look better than they really are, it also greatly underestimates many other folk. The score system/stats CAN, however, be a good indicator of what folks are good at:

If you stumble across a player with a K/D of 10+, odds are that he doesn't suck.

If you stumble across a player with a K/T of 10+ hour, odds are that he is agressive.

If you stumble across a player with a FIGHTER hit% of 20+%, odds are that he is a good shot, or he does a really good job of saddling up point blank before he fires.

If you stumble across a player with a a gazillion points, odds are he flies like it's a full time job.

............................. ..................

The mistake that you can make in assessing a player by looking only at his stats, is that they don't show everything:

Low K/D, maybe he only ups at feilds that are being actively vulched. If he still manages to knock some down, he may be very dangerous. Maybe he does attack sorties in fighter mode and gets clobbered by the ack often.

Low K/T, maybe he does bomber escort, prefers to play is safe just because. A lot of great pilot are very cautious.

Low Hit%, maybe he straffs a lot of fixed ground targets (attack sorties in fighter mode). Maybe he mostly relies on snapshots.

Low points, maybe he doesn't fly much (Drex). Maybe he always flies till he's dead, giving up 75% of earned points.

eskimo

eskimo2 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 13, 2002, 03:12:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
k/t = vulch which has nothing to do with aggressiness and little to do with skill. your kidding yourself. All K/T measures is your enemys willingness to spawn.

Vulching CAN give a player a good K/T,
and a good K/D,
and a good K/S,
and a good hit %,
and good points.

In the past, on some tours, I have had my K/D, K/S, K/T and Hit% boosted outragously high via vulching.

So what's your point?
Anyone with a good K/T must have exclusively earned it through vulching? If you think this, you gotta say the same for all stats. It can be that way, but always... your kidding YOURself.

This tour my K/T for fighters is 12.96, for attack 14.04 (as of now). This includes 8 Chog vulch kills (in attack mode), and 2 A6M vulch kills, out of 166 kills in fighter and attack combined. That's about 6% of my kills. Is that enough to give me a good K/T. How do you explain the rest?

K/T = aggessivness

eskimo

SirLoin · « **Reply #26 on:** July 13, 2002, 05:14:10 PM »

K/T discourages...

a:escorting buffs
b:returning to base
c:flying perk planes
d:covering goons

There are good reasons for K/T,but the same scoring system penalizes me for the above.You can have a 10:1 K/D....4:1 K/S....an excellant hit%...be top 10 in points but if your K/T is ranked 678th,you won't crack the top 50.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #27 on:** July 13, 2002, 05:28:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SirLoin
K/T discourages...

a:escorting buffs
b:returning to base
c:flying perk planes
d:covering goons

[/B]

This kind of logic works for any of the stats categories. It's silly to single out K/T for any sort of derision when any of the stats may be gamed.

For example... K/D discourages:

1) Aggressive flying
2) Base defense against superior numbers
3) Flying early war planes
4) Engaging at equal or unfavorable odds

K/D encourages:

1) Unrealistic pick and run behavior
2) Unwillingness to aid countrymen in need if it means exposing oneself.
3) Vulching

This whole debate gets to the heart of the problem with comparative statistics that I pointed out in another thread. K/T may reflect vulching. It may also reflect a very aggressive engagement style. Or it may reflect a lot of base defense. Unless you know the player in question, you just have no way of knowing what that stat means. You can't compare one player to another on it unless you know that they both fly the exact same way.

Quote

There are good reasons for K/T,but the same scoring system penalizes me for the above.You can have a 10:1 K/D....4:1 K/S....an excellant hit%...be top 10 in points but if your K/T is ranked 678th,you won't crack the top 50.

By the same token, someone who flies aggressively and manages a 3:1 K/D, 2.5:1 K/S, and a high hit percentage and high K/T will lack for points and the high rank of the K/D and K/S that you enjoy. So he'll barely crack the Top 50 either. The system balances things out.

-- Todd/Leviathn

eskimo2 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 13, 2002, 05:31:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SirLoin
K/T discourages...

a:escorting buffs
b:returning to base
c:flying perk planes

There are good reasons for K/T(as Eskimo mentioned),but the same scoring system penalizes me for the above reasons.You can have a 10:1 K/D....4:1 K/S....an excellant hit%...be top 10 in points but if your K/T is ranked 678th,you won't crack the top 50.

True.

The question is, however, how do you define a good OVERALL fighter pilot, based on the kinds of things that The HTC Score Computer can look at? (Zeros & ones).

We have been given the Tuskegee Airmen's famous plane, but the score computer in no way recognizes any attempt to use it as its pilots did (bomber escort, driving off the enemy istead of getting drug away in pursuit of a kill).
Should (and can) an example like bomber escort success be a factor in OVERALL fighter ranking?

eskimo

akak · « **Reply #29 on:** July 13, 2002, 06:08:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vortex

Plane is everything. Pilot helps.

Nope...a plane is only as good as its pilot.

Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders